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Jamie_grieve

Thoughts and musings on the new defender

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1 hour ago, deep said:

The TV programme has become near enough unwatchable, due mostly to one presenter in particular who is loud and unpleasant.  Fortunately, as you say, it looks like this review will be by somebody else.  I really hope so!

I agree, even the original 3 were becoming a little tiresome near the end, but the BBC seem to not see this

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I would take Paddy  Chris and Freddy over Clarkson and co any day , even if the show is so obviously scripted it’s still better now although I’m not a regular viewer 

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Maybe this is what Gezza is aiming for  https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/road-rover-coming-by-the-end-of-2021-with-electric-powertrain/ar-BB11DvnB?ocid=spartandhp 

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I watched the top gear one and just seemed to have a puzzled 'why?' look on my face. The ladder is weird, as is the pannier on the other side. The cab seems nice enough, but I bet its a bitch when its dirty. On the Van Zyl pass, the guy spent longer looking at the touchscreen and the CGI images of outside than anything else including the outside, hardly any real action shots of the vehicle... meh.

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I enjoyed the top gear review. I like the car, it's nice. The air suspension is cool. If it didn't have the defender badge, it would be easier to appreciate it for what it is: the off road equivalent of a Volvo estate. Not a Mondeo, not a BMW, not a Mercedes.

I'd buy one tomorrow, if I had that sort of money spare, and trade it every two years, before it started breaking down.

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If it had a disco badge and different headrests, it would be closer to what it achieves.

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Great timing!  New Zealand has gone into a "state of emergency" and everyone's been told to hole up for four weeks.  Could at least spend a day looking at on-line reviews!

From what I've seen so far in the reviews, there are some positives.  Big fleets and the cars have been problem-free, other than punctures.  60, 70, even 80 m.p.h. on a big sand plain could have turned an old-school Land Rover upside down.  They've done some genuine off-roading (at least as much as most people do anyway) without ripping that vulnerable-looking front off or dragging the undersides out.  It seems a little louder and, apparently, stiffer than expected.  It will sell like hotcakes but, as has been mentioned so often, not to people who want a utility-type vehicle...

It's going to be an entertaining few days.

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3 hours ago, reb78 said:

The cab seems nice enough, but I bet its a bitch when its dirty. 

Nah, it's actually designed to be cleaned.  Rubber under the carpet and no door sills to stop you sweeping dirt out, for example, plus a heap of load protection options.  It might have other shortcomings but they did at least design it to get dirty.

That touchscreen!!! Crazy idea.

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Has there been even one review yet by someone who has at least driven off road before and doesn't think off road means rally driving?
Journalists are the very worst people to review what a Defender should be anyway.
Who's that South African Dude who actually knows what he's talking about? He might not be a 'proper' journalist though... He generally gives unbiased and fair reviews, usually from an overlanding perspective.

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46 minutes ago, Jamie_grieve said:

Has there been even one review yet by someone who has at least driven off road before and doesn't think off road means rally driving?
Journalists are the very worst people to review what a Defender should be anyway.
Who's that South African Dude who actually knows what he's talking about? He might not be a 'proper' journalist though... He generally gives unbiased and fair reviews, usually from an overlanding perspective.

Andrew St.Pierre White?  He is actually English.  He has just spent a lot of time in SA.  Lives in Australia now.

Land Rover black listed him because he gave a bad review on the Disco 2..... Ford also black listed him.  Eventually one guy at LR SA let him test the Disco 4, which went fine.  I doubt they want him to do the Defender as he has not said many nice things about it.

 

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That's the guy. I rate his work. He is experienced, but honest enough to say what he doesn't know.

Relatable. I guess.

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IOL's review: https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/latest-launches/we-put-the-new-land-rover-defender-through-its-paces-in-namibia-45527502

"Some of the Namibian dirt roads are better than locally previously tarred roads, so using a heavy right foot when you’re behind the wheel in a vehicle loaded with electronic safety features becomes almost obligatory. On the long stretches of hard, smooth dirt, the Defender couldn’t get enough, and on long sweeping bends, a gentle drift had us asking for more.
The reality of driving like that though is that things get a bit hectic at the petrol pump, and after a day’s hard driving in low range in soft sand, mud, quicksand and hard and fast playing that saw the cars covered in plumes of water, consumption was almost touching on 30L/100km.

The previous day in the 240 diesel, consumption showed 23L/100km, slightly better considering again there was a lot of sand driving in low range.

When we pulled back to Opuwo Country Lodge, we had done almost 800km, the third rotation to have done so and another one 24 hours behind us.

Land Rover had built a full workshop with the latest equipment, including diagnostic equipment and a hoist to properly clean and service each vehicle. On their return to the UK, this would become the lodge’s laundry room.

What made this trip different is that because the Defenders were still pre-production units, technicians and engineers were constantly monitoring real-time live data and feeding it back to HQ in England where it would be analysed and changes made to the soft and hardware where necessary. There was nothing hidden from us or sanitised. That’s difficult when you’re up to your knees in mud and clay.

As an example: the tyre pressure monitor keeps blipping under a certain pressure, way more than you would normally drive on in sandy conditions, and this will be updated when production starts.

The engineers also picked up a small issue with gear changing when in sand mode, nothing noticeable when you drive, but a minor software tweak will improve it.

They also found that constant hard water driving would shorten the lifespan of the wheel arch protection material, so the guys in the workshop designed and built something on site which will end up on the finished product."

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6 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

Has there been even one review yet by someone who has at least driven off road before and doesn't think off road means rally driving?
Journalists are the very worst people to review what a Defender should be anyway.
Who's that South African Dude who actually knows what he's talking about? He might not be a 'proper' journalist though... He generally gives unbiased and fair reviews, usually from an overlanding perspective.

That’s why I posted Matt Prior’s review from Autocar. He’s at least driven off road a number of times and personally owns a Defender. 
 

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1 hour ago, elbekko said:

Carfection review:

There's no point at all listening to a review from someone who hasn't driven off road before, let alone hasn't done it every day for a living, nor is a user utility vehicles or is even familiar with the old defender. Every single review so far I've seen is basically part of the JLR Namibia marketing exercise. I want to see an American or Australian review, they don't usually sugar coat things.
Is there any new footage from the American trip now been released?
Anybody who doesn't mention the savage lurching from wheel to wheel on fairly benign terrain isn't doing a review, they're part of the advertising campaign.

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28 minutes ago, Jamie_grieve said:

There's no point at all listening to a review from someone who hasn't driven off road before, let alone hasn't done it every day for a living, nor is a user utility vehicles or is even familiar with the old defender.

Why not? From Land Rover's perspective it's a perfect way of showcasing the capabilities of the vehicle and all the engineering that's gone into the traction control systems and the general setup of the vehicle. If a complete off-road novice can tackle some challenging terrain thanks to the vehicle it's a testament to the engineering behind. Now put a competent off-road driver behind the wheel and see what the vehicle is really capable of.

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But that was not challenging terrain.  It was easy stuff.  Anybody that has not been off road before thinks it is the most amazing thing ever, no matter what level of difficulty or what vehicle.  They can't provide any comparison to other vehicles nor now what is easy and what is hard.

A "real" review is with a seasoned off road driver and they drive the same obstacles back to back with a 2016 Defender. You can then provide a real review and comparison.

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I agree. Average Jo Public probably hasn't got a clue.

 

For example, this image:

LR-2020-Defender.jpg

 

It's kind of cool. But as an off road enthusiast, it really shows up the limitation of the design. I know fully well that something like a Subaru Forrester could drive that very same section of terrain and would lift a wheel just as much. And it just makes the vehicle look unstable and far inferior to a live axle 4x4 in terms of stability and flex.

 

To many though, they will think WOW isn't this superb.... 

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1 minute ago, Red90 said:

A "real" review is with a seasoned off road driver and they drive the same obstacles back to back with a 2016 Defender. You can then provide a real review and comparison.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn LR won't allow the new model to be compared to the old one off road.

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