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Jamie_grieve

Thoughts and musings on the new defender

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4 hours ago, Snagger said:

As in DC100?  The universally reviled piece of carp that they dropped a few years back and then introduced to critical acclaim because they bought all the journalists with a fancy launch?

Don't you mean lunch then a tame ride through some pleasant scenery? 

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On 5/1/2020 at 8:23 PM, Mo Murphy said:

I think we both know a forum where it will be popular 😊

Clay bar and tailpipe polish anyone ?  😂

Mo

If that's where I'm thinking of, it's not! They've had quite vitriolic rants about "true" Defender ownership and these are now dubbed The Pretender. 

Ironic really, given the rest of the threads are "how much is my Defender worth" or "is a Defender an investment". Luckily the market is answering the latter question....

Edited by ThreePointFive

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On 5/2/2020 at 12:26 PM, Snagger said:

As in DC100?  The universally reviled piece of carp that they dropped a few years back and then introduced to critical acclaim because they bought all the journalists with a fancy launch?

Personally I thought the DC100 looked really good. Much sharper than this new Pretender does. It still wouldn’t have been a Defender but if they retained the  DC100 naming or even something like Defender Sport I probably wouldn’t have objected. 
 

Land-Rover-Defender-DC10-Land-Rover-01.j

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The DC100 was good in its own right, but panned as a replacement for the Defender.  That is pretty much what most of us are saying about the new Defender - a good car, but an utterly inappropriate replacement.  So, even that was carried over from the DC100.  But you can see a lot of the styling cues are the same, and the DO NOT have tones of the original Defender, regardless of JLR claims.

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The DC100 was a lot better looking, in my eyes, than the actual Defender it became.  The mockups ran on Range Rover Sport underpinnings.  At the time, I thought that was just for convenience as it was a styling exercise but time has shown that was pretty much what they intended to make, even way back then.  Meanwhile, we're still waiting for an effective replacement for the real Defender...

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On 5/1/2020 at 10:46 AM, Mo Murphy said:

You mean someone is going to buy one ?

Mo

Controversial opinion here, but if I were a richer man I might consider it.

In fact as I typed that i realised I would actually rather buy a new RRS than a defender for the same money as its quicker, more stylish and just as good off road where I would likely take such a thing (a grass field).

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Given the price structure and crossover, what's the general consensus on the pretender resale values and depreciation compared to its older brothers? 
It does have a certain type of practicality but no more so than anything else in the range by the time they're all second hand but without the 'prestige' or toys/ luxury..There's no longer any arguments about it being any simpler to maintain or being any more reliable given that so many parts are used across the range. Who are the demographic it will appeal to on the second hand market? Do we expect it to be half of list price after three years similar to other 'premium' brands or will it buck the trend like defenders did?

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The people that will buy it are the non beardy types that bought a disco 3-4. They are the ones that bought a disco because it's not a range rover! Because it's capable, you can throw stuff in the back and not care to much and it's comfortable. The horsey types that want a good tow vehicle that can drive across a field and not be a range rover. Those are the type. Good luck to them it's not a defender but it was never going to be, in the same way a BMW mini will never be a mini, great car but not a mini.

Mike

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2 hours ago, miketomcat said:

They are the ones that bought a disco because it's not a range rover! Because it's capable, you can throw stuff in the back and not care to much and it's comfortable.

And therefore missed out on the Range Rover :SVAgoaway:

I'll confess to the point I was contemplating a Disco 4 because after driving a 4 I wasn't going to have a 3. But then LR kindly announced the new shape L405 Range Rover and the price of second hand L322's dropped significantly. So it was cheaper than a Disco, comfier, more capable and had the bonus of the TDV8 engine.

And yeah, I threw stuff in the back and didn't care. In fact, if the chap I sold it to lifted up the plastic flap between the tailgate and boot he'd have found some dried blood from a deer that was shot and thrown in the back the year before :ph34r:.

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28 minutes ago, Ed Poore said:

And therefore missed out on the Range Rover :SVAgoaway:

I'll confess to the point I was contemplating a Disco 4 because after driving a 4 I wasn't going to have a 3. But then LR kindly announced the new shape L405 Range Rover and the price of second hand L322's dropped significantly. So it was cheaper than a Disco, comfier, more capable and had the bonus of the TDV8 engine.

And yeah, I threw stuff in the back and didn't care. In fact, if the chap I sold it to lifted up the plastic flap between the tailgate and boot he'd have found some dried blood from a deer that was shot and thrown in the back the year before :ph34r:.

Which is rather @Jamie_grieve's point, I think - there's nothing much to differentiate this vehicle once the 'posher' cars are old enough not to care about chucking stuff in the back.

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Well if it follows the Range Rover pricing then I'll be all for it because it'll plummet in a few years and make it more affordable for the likes of us. When I bought my TDV8 it was 5 years old, had about 90k on the clock, 5 previous owners and rather than being £85k or whatever it was new it was £16k with a years warranty on it.

There were a few expenses but actually on the whole it was a pretty reliable vehicle - my biggest expense by a long way was tyres because when I had it there weren't that many options for all-terrain tyres in 19" rims and I kept puncturing side-walls. It did like to be driven though, if you were just pootling around once a month you'd have issues. If you drove it hard regularly then it was fine - kept all the cobwebs blown out.

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11 hours ago, paime said:

Controversial opinion here, but if I were a richer man I might consider it.

In fact as I typed that i realised I would actually rather buy a new RRS than a defender for the same money as its quicker, more stylish and just as good off road where I would likely take such a thing (a grass field).

So you wouldn't buy one, paime ? 😂

Mo

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1 hour ago, Mo Murphy said:

So you wouldn't buy one, paime ? 😂

Mo

Correct! I thought I might buy one but then realised the RRS is the better vehicle!

Serious question though, how many people are actually going to use the new Defender for serious off roading? On the basis that the number is quite low, why is JLR trying to make the case for the new Defender as a serious off roader?

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Just now, paime said:

Serious question though, how many people are actually going to use the new Defender for serious off roading? On the basis that the number is quite low, why is JLR trying to make the case for the new Defender as a serious off roader?

Branding - simple as that. It's about the image the buyers want to project (which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what they really do).

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I think it's all part of building a false pedigree for it.

Mo

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I will buy it when it drops sub £10k secondhand (if any get there and they arent scrapped due to electrical failures that cost the earth). Probably to replace the current disco 3 we have or the L322 I would love to replace the D3 with next. I spend a max of about £7k on these vehicles, but buy carefully, own them outright and maintain them myself. These are all for use mainly on tarmac though, occasionally wet fields, with a fair bit of road towing.

The D2 and the 110 will still be running throughout all of this though as none of the above are real replacements for them. These are the best value for money in terms of longevity and ease of maintenance. I expect the 110 to outlive me. None of the others will!

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10 hours ago, paime said:

Correct! I thought I might buy one but then realised the RRS is the better vehicle!

Serious question though, how many people are actually going to use the new Defender for serious off roading? On the basis that the number is quite low, why is JLR trying to make the case for the new Defender as a serious off roader?

Because it's what their image hangs on:  "We build the Defender, therefore all our cars are good off road."

People who do serious off-roading as a hobby don't tend to buy new cars.  They get older stuff and modify them way beyond what the factory produced.  The next tier down of off-road/rough road drivers will be perfectly served by the Defender (if they don't want a pick-up or a van etc.!) so the image won't be misleading.  They absolutely need that to differentiate from BMWs, Audis and the like.

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I agree - the Pretender has good off road capability when everything is working to try to underpin Land Rover’s credentials as a serious off road vehicle brand.  Nobody looks at BMW or Audi as having such a pedigree (I’m not talking about rally cars but overlanding or severe terrain).  
 

Because the Pretender has the same technology, design philosophies and costs as the rest of the LR range, I think it’s entirely reasonable to expect a similar level of unreliability, ownership and running costs and depreciation.  It won’t compare to the Defender or Series vehicles in that respect, especially because it won’t generally be enthusiasts buying it but rich neurotic folk trying to live up to a marketed image.

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Rich neurotic types.
Beardy types.

...and that's only on this page, good to see class consciousness is still alive and well in 21st Century pandemic ridden Great Britain😆

Come on guys, only a page or two to go before this thread reaches the century, you can do it! Things ain't what they used to be, new = bad / ugly, complicated & unreliable. Old + classic, good / simple, fixable & reliable. The less your initial capital outlay and more dents and shyte you collect on and in your motor the more real your existence right?

😉😉😉🤣

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Will all the electronics and transmitters in the Pretender cause other Covid epidemics? 😜

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31 minutes ago, Happyoldgit said:

Rich neurotic types.
Beardy types.

...and that's only on this page, good to see class consciousness is still alive and well in 21st Century pandemic ridden Great Britain😆

Come on guys, only a page or two to go before this thread reaches the century, you can do it! Things ain't what they used to be, new = bad / ugly, complicated & unreliable. Old + classic, good / simple, fixable & reliable. The less your initial capital outlay and more dents and shyte you collect on and in your motor the more real your existence right?

😉😉😉🤣

Yes.

I've a limited lifespan, I don't want to spend it waiting for a tow truck because an ECU has failed. Nor do I want to be stressed because some paint had been scratched.

But that's just me. The modern car gets cleaned by the garage when they service it. That's it. I'll take over servicing myself this year, I think, as it's now 14. It will get washed only if herself does it, thereafter.

 

 

 

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On 5/5/2020 at 6:38 AM, miketomcat said:

The people that will buy it are the non beardy types that bought a disco 3-4. They are the ones that bought a disco because it's not a range rover! Because it's capable, you can throw stuff in the back and not care to much and it's comfortable. The horsey types that want a good tow vehicle that can drive across a field and not be a range rover. Those are the type. Good luck to them it's not a defender but it was never going to be, in the same way a BMW mini will never be a mini, great car but not a mini.

Mike

Most of the D3/4 drivers I see are women!! Horsey types or just school run mums?

Just because I have a D3 does not mean I would buy one of these. But if it had been designed as the the D4 replacement maybe.

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On 4/29/2020 at 4:05 PM, reb78 said:

Hatfield seemed embarrassed to be selling the last of the original defenders when we went in there in about 2014. Tucked at the back of the show room in a dusty corner. Tea boy on duty to show it to second rate customers like myself.... They didn't seem to know the vehicle at all. Certainly didn't want my crusty 25 (at the time) year old 110 parked near their forecourt!

My local LR franchise refused to sell my mate an original Defender 90, wrong image for East Berkshire even then. They told him to drive to Wales if he wanted a test drive.

Supprise, he got an L200 instead.

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1 hour ago, Happyoldgit said:

Rich neurotic types.
Beardy types.

...and that's only on this page, good to see class consciousness is still alive and well in 21st Century pandemic ridden Great Britain😆

Come on guys, only a page or two to go before this thread reaches the century, you can do it! Things ain't what they used to be, new = bad / ugly, complicated & unreliable. Old + classic, good / simple, fixable & reliable. The less your initial capital outlay and more dents and shyte you collect on and in your motor the more real your existence right?

😉😉😉🤣

Pitchfork ready MOG, as always 😆

 

Question for the Admin/Mods panel :

Are we going to have a Pretender forum and will it be as popular as the Evoque forum ?

Mo

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6 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

Pitchfork ready MOG, as always 😆

 

Question for the Admin/Mods panel :

Are we going to have a Pretender forum and will it be as popular as the Evoque forum ?

Mo

It’ll have deep questions like “how can I modify the head rests so they don’t squash my man-bun?” and “does anyone make an accessory that will better secure the specific shape of my Gucci sunglasses?”  You know, the important stuff...

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