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What axle innards does the 70th Anni Defender use?

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Does anyone know what axles and innards the 70th Anniversary Defender V8 uses?

I know it has the AJV8 and ZF 8 speed box, but I assume the axles are still Rover. My guess is they might be running Ashcroft HD components. Are they still open diffs or did Land Rover fit an LSD?

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Posted (edited)

Apparently Bowler did all of the axle, suspension and steering work.  Land Rover farmed it out...  You would need to ask Bowler.

Edited by Red90

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talking to a friend who was aware of the work bowler were doing for land rover, before land rover announced the 70th defenders, I suspect they could be standard items

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I know the V6 110 was raced on standard axle internals, so I wouldn't be surprised if the 70th was too.

 

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You'd have thought a petrol V8 through an auto box would be a lot gentler on the drive train than a typical inexperienced Defender driver with a manual, heavy boot and relatively big diesel lump. I guess they can also map the engine to minimise lumpy torque which is going to hit the drive train hard.

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The owner's of these trucks are not ever going to use them off road.  They are lucky of they will ever leave the garage.

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I just wondered if LR beefed them up a bit. Pretty sure the JE Engineering Defenders usually use Ashcroft ATB and shafts and I know Ashcroft supplies the factory for other bits. 

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I'm not sure they are even going to make it to someones garage :unsure:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/104894/land-rover-defender-works-v8-selfridges-edition-to-be-revealed-in-store

My pickup has the 8 speed ZF, obviously they alter the gearing and its response to each application, however even though the changes are seamless and very quick it's still as dim-witted and clumsy as all the other autos out there at junctions etc. You roll up to a junction and there's a gap so you put your foot down, nothing happens, cars coming so you panic and put your foot down more, nothing happens, you clench then all of a sudden the thing takes off like a rocket and launches you into the field opposite. Nowhere near as gentle as the old range rover slushy hydraulic auto was, ok it used to drain most of your engine power but it was more predictable and always seemed to give you drive. 

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1 hour ago, Cynic-al said:

you clench then all of a sudden the thing takes off like a rocket and launches you into the field opposite.

Funnily enough I saw a spanking new Jag SUV embedded in a fence opposite a junction about a month ago on my commute, looked like he'd done exactly that! :lol:

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:D

They are awful, I don't know why people like automatics, I had high hopes for this box as everyone told me how good they were and I couldn't get this vehicle with a manual but I'd like to go back to a manual. I even went for paddle shift as my backup but that's a load of rubbish too. They seem harder and harder to get though, with higher tuned engines they need more gears to keep it in a power / efficiency band and as soon as you add an electric motor your prety much stuck with the auto. 

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Hmm. Yes you can catch the boxes out a little but but I didn't find the ZF 6hp26 in my TDV8 as bad as you describe. It did have a tendency to pull off in second or third but my route home cuts across a busy dual carriageway (Hogsback) and I found if you hold the brake and a little bit of revs it simply took off like a rocket with you released the brake. If you wanted a stupidly fast response whack it into manual mode and select first and do the same thing. The way I found you could catch it out was if you were braking heavily and then stood on the accelerator.

In general things were pretty good in normal mode, if you put it into 'sport' then even using it as a normal auto you didn't really feel any delay. Manual mode meant you had complete control then and even less delay when it was perceptible. Maybe it's because it's a 6 speed it doesn't have as many to choose from :rolleyes:

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The 8 speed is very hard to drive in manual as under braking you will click the down button 3 or 4 times but it decides to ignore one of them either as you've pressed the button too quickly or you were going too fast for the gear you've asked for so then you get an awkward moment where it isn't doing what you want and you having to look a the display on the dash to work out how many more times you need to press the button to get what you want. In a manual you just do it without thinking about it. It doesn't help that they're so close together either, it makes it harder to judge the gear you need. In sport and offroad it holds gears longer and shifts down sooner but I rarely use it. The times when it catches me out are when I'm just driving normally not trying to loon about. This one also insists on starting in first and going through every gear, it won't skip gears or start in 2nd or 3rd. It doesn't have a low box and they have gone lower ratio at the bottom of the box to compensate. If your cruising empty on a flat road it'll go into 7th in a 30mph so from pulling out your road end to getting upto 30 it does 6 gear changes. That means you can either pull out very slowly as it needs a lot of time to get through that many gear changes or you push the throttle a little more and it holds onto a lower gear and throws you through the neighbours hedge again. It's hard to get something inbetween the two. 

What I find helps is rather than brake upto a junction or roundabout, slow down a bit earlier so that you can just lightly press the throttle as your approaching the junction, this makes it pick a gear and then usually it'll stick with it as you pull out unless you try to floor it or have something heavy behind you. 

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Autos are for city and off road driving, not spirited country roads :) 

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On 10/9/2018 at 8:03 PM, Anderzander said:

We have someone from Bowler on here don’t we ...?

@discomikey

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23 hours ago, Cynic-al said:

I'm not sure they are even going to make it to someones garage :unsure:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/104894/land-rover-defender-works-v8-selfridges-edition-to-be-revealed-in-store

My pickup has the 8 speed ZF, obviously they alter the gearing and its response to each application, however even though the changes are seamless and very quick it's still as dim-witted and clumsy as all the other autos out there at junctions etc. You roll up to a junction and there's a gap so you put your foot down, nothing happens, cars coming so you panic and put your foot down more, nothing happens, you clench then all of a sudden the thing takes off like a rocket and launches you into the field opposite. Nowhere near as gentle as the old range rover slushy hydraulic auto was, ok it used to drain most of your engine power but it was more predictable and always seemed to give you drive. 

Absolutely how I feel about the latest autos. I drove Dad's Disco 4 for a while when it was new, and at low speed I found it quite indecisive and not at all smooth. On my old Discovery V8 auto, plant it and you'd go, any situation, any time. It was brilliant and as you got to 40 in 1st gear if you were in a hurry, and about 70 in 2nd, delays changing gear were not really a thing. The ultimate power may have been less but the confidence that it would do what you want (and that you knew what it would do) was there. The only gear that was unresponsive in terms of acceleration was 4th, so if you were in a hurry or feeling keen you just leave it in 3 and enjoy :)

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reading from the technical specs online, the diffs are 4 pin units but seem to be standard otherwise.. 

Not surprising to be fair. Going from knowledge gained from our V6SC 110 rally car, (roughly similar HP and torque figures to the NAv8), with the same ZF8HP gearbox and standard axles, (although we run limited slip differentials for obvious reasons) In the countless rally events, demonstrations and even in the hands of the (not so sympathetic press) only 1 halfshaft was ever broken. It was broken on stage at sweet lamb where the driver admitted it was a full throttle wheel in the air to tyre grip moment.. even a 2.25 diesel will do axle damage in that situation. 

 

The auto's are very kind on the drivetrain. 

Its suprising to hear of bad experiences with the 8 speed. we run that in all our current models, Its a very responsive gearbox and pretty bombproof. Of course, it won't let you change up a gear when youre labouring at sub 1,000rpm.. nor will it let you downshift when you're already at 7,000RPM.. but otherwise it is very responsive. 

Our ford ranger pickup with the ZF6HP box however is much more disappointing. as described above, sluggish or denied shift requests. This is all down to calibration. 

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On 10/11/2018 at 4:49 PM, Bowie69 said:

Autos are for city and off road driving, not spirited country roads :) 

I'd tend to have agreed with you until the last 3 years. Get yourself in an SVR range rover sport (manual mode of course) and your mind will be changed! 

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I must admit the range rover auto was brilliant offroad. You could be very gentle by left foot braking no snatching the clutch and brake and you could change speed on hills without loss of power.

Don't get me wrong the 8 speed zf is the best auto I've ever driven, it's known for taking huge amounts of power being used in things like Bentleys, but the problem is when I'm driving a manual I react to what im going to do in advance so the car is setup ready and it's done by instinct, I don't think about it I just look at the road ahead. An auto can't do that because it can't react until I start the manoeuvre. To make it react means me taking some sort of advanced action, ie put it in sport, knock it down a few gears etc but all of that takes my mind and attention off the road. Also sometimes it does it sometimes it doesn't so you really struggle to get it right. On a track where your fast driving all the time fine you can leave it in sport but of the road where it's the odd junction followed by a few miles of mundane it's not so clear cut. 

When you usually have to pay more for the auto and often get worse mpg and emissions and wear brakes quicker I'd just rather not.

The other frustration is it's limited to 200nm in reverse. In my old isuzu I could reverse a trailer around the corner and up my drive just riding the clutch on idle. In this you have to rev it's nuts off then once it starts rolling in runs away. Very frustrating. I believe there's a software fix but as it's under warranty I don't like to fiddle too much. 

 

Also... another post ruined by me! 

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