Improving Defender ride quality

[Lightning]

I have spent literally years experimenting with the ride quality on my Defender 110 TD5.

Springs and shocks are a tricky one. Fitting softer springs will affect the ride height and changing dampers is a compromise between ride quality and road holding.

So, the results l have come up with make my 110 TD5 ride a lot better than standard and can be done for around £400, without affecting ride height.

TDCi Puma SW springs (new “take off” £110) 

Terrafirma 4-way adjustable dampers, set to the softest setting (£260)

Discovery 2 front spring isolators (£30)

Front and rear anti roll bars, LR OE if not already fitted. (an extra £200 if needed)

Tyre pressure at 33 front 44 rear (running low pressures make matters worse, as the bouncing from the tyres conflicts with the suspension action)

My 110 is considerably better on poor roads and can be driven faster on unmade tracks without anything like the pitching and bouncing l had before.

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Lightning

[BogMonster]

That much air in the tyres will give a miserably hard ride IMHO

[Snagger]

I don't know about 110s, but TDCI 90s had harsh suspension.  I never liked the was my wife's 09 90XS drove.  Yours are notable comments on the Terrafirma dampers, too - everyone else comments on how few miles they lasted before disintegrating!  But if it behaves the way you want it to, then well done.  I prefer firm suspension on a road going vehicle, but not as hard as that 90.

[mmgemini]

Tyre pressures too high. I run my 300Tdi 110 at 30 front 36 rear most of the timg. Rears up to 40 when I have trailer on

 

[Lightning]

10 hours ago, BogMonster said:

That much air in the tyres will give a miserably hard ride IMHO

It doesn’t 

Not with the parts l have fitted. Reducing tyre pressure just makes it bounce more on corners. Surely you want the dampers to be doing the work and not the tyres?

Edited October 23, 2018 by Lightning

[Lightning]

5 hours ago, Snagger said:

I don't know about 110s, but TDCI 90s had harsh suspension.  I never liked the was my wife's 09 90XS drove.  Yours are notable comments on the Terrafirma dampers, too - everyone else comments on how few miles they lasted before disintegrating!  But if it behaves the way you want it to, then well done.  I prefer firm suspension on a road going vehicle, but not as hard as that 90.

30,000 miles and still fine.

Mainly road miles though.l would fit better ones if l could find any, but the only other adjustable ones l could find were remote ones at £1,000

Edited October 23, 2018 by Lightning

[FridgeFreezer]

The ambulance runs 48psi in the rear tyres but that weighs 2.8 tons

[Lightning]

LR recommendation is 48psi for the rear tyres on a 110 TD5 SW

The idea is to get the suspension dampers doing the work and not the tyres, as that will result in a bouncy ride.

[western]

48on the rear of a 110 is for a fully loaded vehicle &/or loaded trailer, try 35 in the rest for a everyday lightly loaded vehicle, My 110 carries 400kg of recovery kit & rear tyres are run at 40psi, with fronts at 28, ride is very good on all roads

[Lightning]

It will be with that weight in it, as the rear suspension is designed to work well loaded up.

But l run mine with very little weight in it.

With the adjustable dampers l can alter it as required, when we went on holiday l had my boat and motor in the back plus luggage bikes etc and l set them to firm.

[Oakmaster]

I was told by a guy who had a Land-rover Workshop, and a separate Tyre business, that for a lightly loaded 110 CSW - 32 PSI on the back and 28 on the front 

He showed me that 40 PSI on the back was wearing out the tread in the middle.   

[Lightning]

Why then would Land Rover, who designed the vehicle, recommend 48psi.

With softer rear dampers and standard LR springs you can inflate the tyres to 44-48 psi and the ride is much improved as the dampers are then working to cushion the ride.

Otherwise, when you go over a bump, the suspension will compress and so will the tyre. Then the damper will resist bouncing, but the tyre will work against it, giving the well known bouncy ride quality 

[Ex Member]

48 psi is meant for when you are loaded to the maximum GVW.  They need to say that to be safe as people are not capable of adjusting pressures based on load.

[FridgeFreezer]

1 hour ago, Lightning said:

Why then would Land Rover, who designed the vehicle, recommend 48psi.

Land Rover, who designed the vehicle, also fitted all that suspension you've since ripped off and replaced?

[Ex Member]

If you really want to set pressure properly based on the actual loading, you need to find a scale and weigh the load on each axle.  Adjust pressure to be higher than the tyre's rating adjusted to actual weight.  For my vehicles, I weigh them at minimum and maximum loading so that I can best set pressures to match how it is setup.

It is important not to get the rear rolling radius lower than the front as the handling becomes poor, which is another reason LR only gives the maximum pressure.

[Oakmaster]

Interesting -

 

2 hours ago, Lightning said:

Why then would Land Rover, who designed the vehicle, recommend 48psi.

 

Why would Land Rover, recommend 48psi  I don't know the answers, and Im' not even sure of the questions 

But since I don't have any issues with my ride, either the bounce, the road holding, or braking.  I'm aware that the front brakes take the bigger share of the braking effort, and if the tyre wear pattern says the tyre is over-inflated, then the centre part of the tread must be taking more of the grip (I might be talking bollox here)

Red 90  - when you say 'Scale' I assume that means what we would call a Weigh-bridge ? 

 

[mickeyw]

More fundamental I believe than what spring/damper combination - what size and pattern tyres you run!

Before I sold my 90 I took off the 255/86R16 BFG MTs to transfer to the new truck. In their place I fitted the 205R16 road tyres that the 110 came with ( I know, a bit undersized and strange looking having such small tyres). I drove it around a bit, and was struck by an OMG! moment. The handling/steering/grip/breaking/ride comfort - everything.....was soooo much better. The change of gearing meant the 3.9 auto truck went from being respectably brisk to a relative race car.

So when anyone complains about what a POS their old LR is to drive, and explain how they've replaced everything underneath; and I look and see huge 'Simexalikes' on the rims, the reason is patently obvious to me. I have a set myself for play days, and they are indeed bluddy awful to drive on.

[Bowie69]

Well, unsprung weight is the enemy of not only handling, but ride comfort.

35" simex plus a heavy duty steel rim can weight ~50kg. Compare that to a 205/16 and there you have part of the answer to that.

yes, I know it is a beam axle, but I bet you can add 60kg to the axle weight by going silly with tyres.

[mmgemini]

All I know is that I had to replace the rear tyres as the center rubber had worn away. That's one of the reasons I run the rears at 36 lb.

Perhaps also the reason I run fairly standard spring with standard Land Rover shocks

Edited October 24, 2018 by mmgemini

[Oakmaster]

In 1990 I had a SIII Stage 1 V8 which I acquired with worn out Avon Rangemaster X-Plies.

i went a bought a set of 255 85 16 tyres, which I think were the biggest you could buy off the shelf back then. of course they looked like the 'Pups Parts' . but not the best for a daily drive that could include all over the UK.

So I bought (by mail-order a set of 750 R 16 BFGoodrich Commercials ) fitted to my second set of Forward control rims.  These had a Pizza cutter profile and looked very uncool, but were excellent on the road, well mannered, and economical.  After transferring them to my 300Tdi  On Weller 8 spokes, clocked up an excellent 67,000 miles before they were worn out.

I ran them at 28Psi and 32Psi  and rotated them regularly.

[deep]

The first 110 I used regularly (work car) and my current 110 both have the Boge ride leveller.  The ride was/is very decent in both cases.  My current work car is a (groan) Mitsubishi Pajero i.o..  Independent front suspension, rear beam on coils with fancy five link setup.  Alloys and lighter tyres than my 110.  It manages to be both harder on choppy bumps and more mushy on more rolling surfaces than the old truck Land Rover.  Even with 255/85s on the 110 and the rear sway bar removed.  I think this is largely due to the softer springs the ride leveller allows and, of course, the long and well-controlled travel.  A 110 should ride well, no reason at all for it not to ride like a slightly firmer Range Rover, except maybe on very rough roads where the extra tyre weight would be felt.

I forgot to mention, I travel modestly loaded and usually run 30 p.s.i. in the front and 34 p.s.i. in the back - less if venturing far off-road.  The three BFG KMs have been on three vehicles and done maybe 70,000km and wear is nice and even.  I'm definitely not in the high pressure school, especially having had a fright on a wet road when the garage over-inflated the Mitsubishi tyres recently!  I stopped using that garage...

Edited October 24, 2018 by deep
added text

[mad_pete]

As mentioned surely the psi needs to be set to get the right tread footprint on the road.  I like comfort but I also like stopping and steering .......

[Lightning]

Well, Land Rover recommend 33psi/49psi F/R for a standard 110 SW under normal conditions.

When loaded towards the limits LR recommend 33psi/65psi  F/R

All l can say is that on a standard TD5 110 SW considerable improvement in the ride/handling can be achieved by carrying out the modifications l recommended above.

[Bowie69]

Be interesting to see the tyre wear after 20K miles  

[Eightpot]

I don't think I'd go up to 65, but had a very strange German pal who refused to run any lower than 65psi front & Rear as he knew best -  and nothing wierd happened, much to my dissapointment.

With 2 tonnes teetering high on tall tyres,  anything in the 30s at the rear would worry me. 42-48 on tarmac works nice.