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Bigj66

TD5 clutch

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I’ve previously reported some lack of smoothness in the clutch on my 110 but it’s still functioned okay up until tonight when on the A55 the pedal suddenly went to the floor. If it was a cable operated clutch then I’d say it had snapped that’s how sudden it was. Managed to limp home by blipping the throttle to change gear and now need to figure out what’s happened. I’d planned to change the clutch when I swap to the high ratio TB but wasn’t planning on doing it just yet. Am I likely to be looking at the famous rod through the lever arm scenario based on my explanation or should I be looking elsewhere?

Is the removal of the gearbox on a 110 the same as a series where the seat base has to come out or did Landrover come to their senses and simplify the task? Any tips to make the job safer, quicker or easier?

If I fit a new clutch and have the box out then I may as well swap the TB whilst I’m at it. Should I plan on a weekends work to do those jobs?

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TD 5 has a different design clutch operating fork, a cast item similar to the V8. Thus unlikely you have punched a hole through it. Might be failure of seals in slave cylinder, if it was the master you would have an indication from the tell tale leaking into your footwell.

The gearbox can be removed from below on a Defender, but is heavy, very heavy. It is also possible to split TB from main box whilst they are still in the vehicle. Drain it first because at least one of the bolts fastening them together goes into the oil reservoir of the TB. You will probably need to remove the tunnel anyway, in order to get to the various linkages/cables which operate hi/lo, diff lock etc

How long the job will take depends upon the sort of facilities and equipment you have available to you. In essence it is possible for one person to do it over a weekend.

Personally, I would do it from above and endure the removal of seat box etc. But I don't have any way of lifting the vehicle, neither do I have a pit. I have done it both ways, but when I did it from below, the engine was out if the vehicle so I didn't have to worry about lining everything up to get the mainshaft into the clutch.

Get some M10 stud bar. Then if you do separate TB from main box in the truck and put it back the same way, you can screw lengths of stud into some of the threads for the bolts fastening them together, thus taking some of the weight and preventing the TB from "rolling" while you refit it.

Bon chance!

Edited by neil110

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 I am also thinking of installing a high ratio transfer box in my 110 TD5.

Can you report back when you have fitted it? I have been told that it makes reverse/first gear fairly high.

Although first gear could be higher for me, as l only use the vehicle on road.

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13 hours ago, neil110 said:

TD 5 has a different design clutch operating fork, a cast item similar to the V8. Thus unlikely you have punched a hole through it. Might be failure of seals in slave cylinder, if it was the master you would have an indication from the tell tale leaking into your footwell.

The gearbox can be removed from below on a Defender, but is heavy, very heavy. It is also possible to split TB from main box whilst they are still in the vehicle. Drain it first because at least one of the bolts fastening them together goes into the oil reservoir of the TB. You will probably need to remove the tunnel anyway, in order to get to the various linkages/cables which operate hi/lo, diff lock etc

How long the job will take depends upon the sort of facilities and equipment you have available to you. In essence it is possible for one person to do it over a weekend.

Personally, I would do it from above and endure the removal of seat box etc. But I don't have any way of lifting the vehicle, neither do I have a pit. I have done it both ways, but when I did it from below, the engine was out if the vehicle so I didn't have to worry about lining everything up to get the mainshaft into the clutch.

Get some M10 stud bar. Then if you do separate TB from main box in the truck and put it back the same way, you can screw lengths of stud into some of the threads for the bolts fastening them together, thus taking some of the weight and preventing the TB from "rolling" while you refit it.

Bon chance!

Thanks for the reply and advice. The pedal went straight to the floor without any warning so maybe I’ve burst a hydraulic pipe? I’ll get underneath tomorrow and have a look see. If I have then it should be pretty obvious. Can the box come out through the cab via an engine hoist?

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Get some diagnostics done first!  Check the fluid level, clamp the hose, that sort of thing. It might be an easier fix.

G.

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The clutch release bearing could have collapsed, as they are only plastic. That's what happen on mine when I lost the clutch.

I then replaced the clutch as well and nought a stainless steel clutch release bearing from Megasquirt V8

https://www.megasquirt-v8.co.uk/diff_offroad.php

Steve

Edited by steve200TDi

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10 minutes ago, steve200TDi said:

The clutch release bearing could have collapsed, as they are only plastic. That's what happen on mine when I lost the clutch.

I then replaced the clutch as well and nought a stainless steel clutch release bearing from Megasquirt V8

https://www.megasquirt-v8.co.uk/diff_offroad.php

Steve

 Cheers, it definitely felt like something ‘snapped’ but I’m going to pop outside now and take a look for anything obvious underneath.

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Did a quick visual check of pipe work and linkages etc and all looks well. Slave cylinder is dry and the flexi hose in good condition. Master cylinder fluid level is low and dirty. Underneath the seal has a combination of what looks like grease and maybe some fluid. I tried pumping the pedal a few times and noticed there were some bubbles coming up into the reservoir. Clamping the flexi hose made no difference so I suspect the master cylinder and will order a new one along with a new slave as it probably won’t be far behind.

Worth a try and if it doesn’t work then it’s a box out jobbie. 

What does that sensor do on the top of the pedal box?

691B5213-42FB-4491-8457-AB5E51B6790D.jpeg

D11E5A63-66FB-4B8E-B0BE-319E280E027B.jpeg

A7ADDF5E-1527-4213-AC81-68FBDF48E79C.jpeg

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Td5 has a pressure sensor on the clutch hydraulics as part of the anti-stall logic in the ECU. It senses the reduction in pressure as you lift the clutch through the bite point and compensates the fuel load accordingly. I used to find it quite useful for moving off on greasy / slippery surfaces (wet grass or ice, etc).

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Interesting.

I’m thinking about going with Bearmach parts as replacements unless anyone advises against it?

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Rather than replace the cylinders, why not overhaul them? The overhaul kits are a fraction of the price of new units and, once you have the cylinders out, very little more work. I have been doing it this way for nearly 25 years.

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I’ve pulled the master and slave out this afternoon whilst I wait for the new ones to be delivered. I did think about resealing the originals but if that didn’t work for some reason then I’d be left without a vehicle for even longer and it’s already causing me problems. I managed to get new Bearmach parts for £23 so quite reasonable.

I’d like to speak to the chap who decided to put a master cylinder mounting bolt underneath between it and the bulkhead 🤬. What a bugger to get to, ended up having to undo the expansion tank to be able to get a spanner in behind. Presumably the easiest way to get to it is to take out the pedal box along with the interior trim etc etc or get a very long 13mm spanner to reach up from inside?

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At least you can now overhaul the defective units and keep them on the shelf for next time.

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14 minutes ago, neil110 said:

At least you can now overhaul the defective units and keep them on the shelf for next time.

In my experience, doing that will ensure that there never will be a 'next time'.

 

Land-Rovers have psychic powers: they know the failures you are prepared-for - and cunningly arrange to fail in an unprepared-for way!

Edited by Tanuki

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43 minutes ago, neil110 said:

At least you can now overhaul the defective units and keep them on the shelf for next time.

I did check the M/C bore when I removed it and it does look a little bit scored inside although the seal looked okayish. No sign of any sudden failure that would explain the pedal going to the floor as it did.

I can’t see inside the slave cylinder aperture to check the pushrod and arm but it seems to be in the correct place and moves easily enough. Might try to get a mirror or something to try and take a closer look.

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I’ve ordered an over length 13mm spanner to help with the reassembly. The thought of spending yet another hour on one bolt just depresses me 😐

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I'm the number one person in support of rebuild - reuse... but when it comes to cylinders like this I've learnt from bitter experience they're just not designed with longevity to be re-built, the bores get scored or worn out of true so new seals will work in the short term but quickly fail again. I've learnt to pick battles and this is not one of them, replace and move on.

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Refitted the new slave and master cylinders today and bled them up. I think I need to adjust the master cylinder pushrod as the pedal is all over the place. I’ll have to try and find a measurement for it in the manual. I think it’s fixed the problem as the clutch works-ish but it might need to be bled again after adjustment.

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Often read that it helps to keep the clutch pedal depressed overnight (using a block of wood or so) to get rid of most of the air in the circuit

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I found this on another thread so I’ll give it a go. 

The master cylinder pushrod retaining nut doesn’t seem to want to go back on for some reason and feels cross threaded. Am I right in thinking that the pushrod is an M8 metric fine thread?

9388C595-122F-433F-A27B-6FF05AFCD504.jpeg

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More likely to be 5/16"UNF although I've not done a TD5 clutch hydraulic replacement but earlier ones are - hth

Steve b

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23 minutes ago, steve b said:

More likely to be 5/16"UNF although I've not done a TD5 clutch hydraulic replacement but earlier ones are - hth

Steve b

Cheers Steve, just ordered a couple off the bay so will give it a go, certainly looks like the pushrod thread.

While I’m on, does anyone know if the transfer box can be dropped from the gearbox and removed from underneath the vehicle without it being jacked up or on a ramp? Looks like it should slide out but just want to check before I try it.

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2 hours ago, Bigj66 said:

While I’m on, does anyone know if the transfer box can be dropped from the gearbox and removed from underneath the vehicle without it being jacked up or on a ramp? Looks like it should slide out but just want to check before I try it.

It will come off but it won't fit under the chassis rails without being jacked up, or if you're on soft ground you could dig a channel 😉

Yes 5/16 UNF thin nut,  NT605041L

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