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Tetsu0san

A few queries about my Defender project

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Hi all

I've recently acquired a P reg Defender 90 which has been used on a farm for a few years. It's rough. I've a list as long as my arm for bits to fix up and replace and it's getting longer and longer!

Anyway, I've just found out that the reason why the N/S wheel was always sloping inwards was because the swivel bearings have pretty much given up and need replacing. Are they bearings top and bottom or are they railko like on my 110? I have the front axle off of my R reg Discovery and the swivels were really good, but it had ABS. Are swivels, bearings, mountings etc different between ABS and non-ABS?

And while underneath I found that it doesn't have any anti-roll bars. Is this correct? My '84 110 doesn't have them which is understandable, but I'd have thought a late 90's 90 would have. I don't mind if it didn't have them from new but I don't want to turn up to an MOT and they turn me away because they're not fitted. The front chassis mounts exist (albeit bent) but the rear mounts are missing anyway as the chassis has been welded up.

Pictures for your amusement:

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Cheers all.

Edited by Tetsu0san

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Is it really worth it? From what I can see you're going to have to spend a shed load of money putting it right, I'm not saying it's impossible and beyond it but looking at that under bonnet fire aftermath you may be better off parting it out for spares and spending the money on something in roadworthy condition. Who knows what you'll find when you dive into it.

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14 minutes ago, Farmerfred said:

Is it really worth it? From what I can see you're going to have to spend a shed load of money putting it right, I'm not saying it's impossible and beyond it but looking at that under bonnet fire aftermath you may be better off parting it out for spares and spending the money on something in roadworthy condition. Who knows what you'll find when you dive into it.

Thank you for your concern, but yes, it's worth it. I've already got the majority of the bits to fix it up and currently it's running, driving, and stopping. I just needed some knowledge on the questions above, that's all.

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As far as your axle is concerned, the assemblies are the same. The ABS sensor is down through the top pin but the housings are unchanged. 

On my basket case 90 it was the wheel bearings that had collapsed...

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If the disco axle is in good order then swap the whole lot, if your overhauling it then swap over to the standard discs and calipers at the time, fit a non-ABS top pin. 

Some discos had 3bolt flanges on the diffs IIRC, easy enough to change to 4 though. 

As for the anti roll bars. If they are fitted and faulty (ie worn bushes/broken links) then it’ll fail the MOT, if they’re not fitted then it’s not part of the test.

Why aren’t they on as standard? Your guess is as good as mine...

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46 minutes ago, Farmerfred said:

Is it really worth it?

Of course it is! Trying to get project defenders  for sensible cash is proving very hard. I've seen a lot worse than what's pictured above going for £2-3k, if you're handy with a spanner and like most of us have a healthy collection of bits it make perfect sense to rescue and restore these. 

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1 hour ago, Scotts90 said:

As far as your axle is concerned, the assemblies are the same. The ABS sensor is down through the top pin but the housings are unchanged.

As for the anti roll bars. If they are fitted and faulty (ie worn bushes/broken links) then it’ll fail the MOT, if they’re not fitted then it’s not part of the test.

Why aren’t they on as standard? Your guess is as good as mine...

Thanks for the reply. It's the swivel bearing that's worn, and I'm sure the bearings are fine as the wheel rotates fine and doesn't make a noise. I'll just leave the anti-roll bar off and that'll be that.

 

1 hour ago, Scotts90 said:

Trying to get project defenders  for sensible cash is proving very hard. I've seen a lot worse than what's pictured above going for £2-3k, if you're handy with a spanner and like most of us have a healthy collection of bits it make perfect sense to rescue and restore these. 

Precisely. I've got a fair few bit's an pieces and it's not an expensive thing to repair. I will be replacing the engine because this one is a bit knackered but that's not too hard as I have a spare engine. The Defender itself didn't cost a huge amount and when it's finished and MOT'd it'll be worth a whole lot more than I paid. And (hopefully) it'll make an ideal first car for my Daughter.

 

1 hour ago, landroversforever said:

That age will be bearings top and bottom in the swivel :) 

Thanks, that's what I hoped it'd be.

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3 hours ago, Scotts90 said:

Some discos had 3bolt flanges on the diffs IIRC, easy enough to change to 4 though. 

Yeah, only on the rear though :)

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1 hour ago, neil110 said:

Anti roll bars were not standard fitment. therefore not required for MoT

Perfect! I need not have spent a couple of hours pulling them off my old Discovery then!

 

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8 hours ago, Tetsu0san said:

Thank you for your concern, but yes, it's worth it. I've already got the majority of the bits to fix it up and currently it's running, driving, and stopping. I just needed some knowledge on the questions above, that's all.

Well. I'm glad you're sticking with it, they all deserve saving and it's only the dedicated enthusiasts like yourself that can do this, I just hope that what you're going to need to put into it will be economically viable, if done properly you will have a Defender that should be worth between 5K to 7K. The only thing I would throw caution at though is the chassis, if there is any rot in it don't bother patching it up, it will not be worth it in the long term, invest in a new galv chassis, that will cost you around 2.5K and stripping the 90 and rebuilding it will throw up any other issues like rust and corrosion which can also then be addressed, no point in skimping, do what needs to be done and you'll have a vehicle that will last you another 22 years.

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anti roll bars were usually factory fitted to passenger carrying model the station wagons. 

my 110CSW only has a rear anti roll bar for example. Discovery & RR normally have front & rear.

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On 11/19/2018 at 11:29 AM, Tetsu0san said:

Thanks for the reply. It's the swivel bearing that's worn, and I'm sure the bearings are fine as the wheel rotates fine and doesn't make a noise. I'll just leave the anti-roll bar off and that'll be that.

Definitely worth replacing the wheel bearings whilst you're in there as it'll be apart anyway. Also worth replacing the swivel ball housing as there's nothing quite as upsetting as putting new one-shot grease in there only for it to gradually fall out all over your driveway! I think the later TD5s changed to a different coating (teflon maybe?) which prevented stone chips but the older ones were uncoated steel which was easily dented and rendered the seal useless over time.

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2 hours ago, paime said:

Definitely worth replacing the wheel bearings whilst you're in there as it'll be apart anyway. Also worth replacing the swivel ball housing as there's nothing quite as upsetting as putting new one-shot grease in there only for it to gradually fall out all over your driveway! I think the later TD5s changed to a different coating (teflon maybe?) which prevented stone chips but the older ones were uncoated steel which was easily dented and rendered the seal useless over time.

Old ones were chrome which is far better than the Teflon coating they used on the later ones. 

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19 hours ago, paime said:

Also worth replacing the swivel ball housing...

These are fine, no pitting, unlike the ones on my 110. But even with them being a bit scabby they haven't torn up the seals yet and don't leak.

 

17 hours ago, landroversforever said:

Old ones were chrome which is far better than the Teflon coating they used on the later ones. 

I fitted some of the Teflon ones to an old 90 I used to have, and the coating started rubbing off almost straight away. I didn't have the 90 long so it wasn't really a problem, but I suspect they'd have had to have been replaced again fairly soon. They were Sh*tpart swivels mind you...

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Just now, Tetsu0san said:

These are fine, no pitting, unlike the ones on my 110. But even with them being a bit scabby they haven't torn up the seals yet and don't leak.

 

I fitted some of the Teflon ones to an old 90 I used to have, and the coating started rubbing off almost straight away. I didn't have the 90 long so it wasn't really a problem, but I suspect they'd have had to have been replaced again fairly soon. They were Sh*tpart swivels mind you...

I think my Teflon swivels did less than 5K in the time they were on the car, and they'd noticeably worn the teflon coating.

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On 11/20/2018 at 5:39 PM, landroversforever said:

Old ones were chrome which is far better than the Teflon coating they used on the later ones. 

I stand corrected! Mine are definitely not teflon and i don't think they're chrome either? I'll need to have another look... It's a 2000 TD5 and it's suffered some fairly heavy pitting over the years. Interesting to hear the teflon ones aren't all they're cracked up to be as well.

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On 11/19/2018 at 9:23 AM, Farmerfred said:

Is it really worth it? From what I can see you're going to have to spend a shed load of money putting it right, I'm not saying it's impossible and beyond it but looking at that under bonnet fire aftermath you may be better off parting it out for spares and spending the money on something in roadworthy condition. Who knows what you'll find when you dive into it.

A fair comment from Farmerfred I thought. An opinion and worded well. 

Good project and everyone’s a winner if you have the time and money to save one from the scrapyard. Im all for saving a Defender. 

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Yes, it's a very valid comment too. I tend to find that a high percentage of rebuild and restoration costs come down to labour as not everyone has the means/methods or indeed time to carry out extensive repairs. That's where if you are able to do all the work it makes perfect sense to repair these types of projects.

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As you may or may not know, I have had my 1994 300TDi 90 Defender County rebuilt over this year, A friend of mine who has been in the body repair and garage business for more years than I can remember and in his younger days worked in a garage that specialised in insurance repairs and he was the body man, did the work, new galv chassis and all new running gear apart from the axles, new foot wells, battery box, plus, plus plus. He didn't work on it 24/7, it took him 7 months and his labour charge was £25 an hour, in total he put 80 hours into it. I bought and supplied all the parts as I could reclaim the VAT as and when he needed them. The total cost came out at around 5K but being able to reclaim about 1K of VAT helped a lot but at the end I have a vehicle that will last me out and has been valued in excess of 10K. I could have bought another later model for between say 8K-9K but 12 months on could very well have the same issue. The list of parts put into this ran to 7 A4 sheets, a lot of parts, nuts, bolts, washers and other small parts were only pence but those pence add up to pounds. Hope this Tetsu0san gives you some idea of what you're in for and what you could end up with. My only parting advice to you would be, whatever needs doing, do it, don't skimp on anything.

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13 hours ago, Scotts90 said:

I tend to find that a high percentage of rebuild and restoration costs come down to labour as not everyone has the means/methods or indeed time to carry out extensive repairs.

I'd certainly not even entertain the idea of taking on a project like this if I didn't have the means to do the work myself. Parts are cheap enough, but labour is something else. And I'm not even sure I'd trust anyone to do the work for me.

 

3 hours ago, Farmerfred said:

Hope this Tetsu0san gives you some idea of what you're in for and what you could end up with. My only parting advice to you would be, whatever needs doing, do it, don't skimp on anything.

I'm not a newbie in doing this kind of work, and labour was never going to be part of the cost equation. I was a little flippant with my reply to you for which I apologise, but that was only because I was asking a fairly simple question about a simple thing and you just came in questioning whether it was actually worth it or not. If there was going to be a third party involved then I'd probably agree that it wasn't worth doing, but I'll be doing all the work myself, I've already got the majority of the parts, so it's only going to be my time that's used. And I wouldn't own numerous Land Rover's if I didn't expect to do work on them. If I had to ship them out for work to be done I'd be broke!

But as a closer, I value everyone's input and I always appreciate someone taking the time to reply to a question, and I try to offer my experience when I can. It's what makes this forum so great.

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All said, I reckon this does still qualify for the 'most optimistic rebuild project of 2018' :)

Oh, and good luck!

 

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Hey ho, me again. So I have a few other queries if you'd be so kind. I have replaced the engine with one out of my old Discovery auto (converted to a manual pump, swapped out all the other Discovery bits) and I've got it running! What a result! But I'd like to know the routes of all the pipework around the back and sides of the engine as all mine was melted. Could one of you lovely people take a few pictures of the route of the breather pipe that goes around the back of the engine from the cyclone filter to the air intake? Also the EGR valve loom, and any of the loom that goes around the back of the engine?

Anyway, for your enjoyment...

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Two engines side by side. One is an EDC auto from a Discovery, the other is the Defender engine.

 

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Discovery engine with everything swapped over from the Defender engine, including a brand new clutch

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Engine bay cleaned off and ready to take the new engine

 

IMAG0932.thumb.jpg.e8ef2ee2d37777c4fb7feee3c453fc67.jpg

New engine in!!!

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18 hours ago, landroversforever said:

OT but what’s the vehicle in the background? :D 

You mean the VW beetle or the truck?

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