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Wontakelong

Wiring loom damage

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Wonder if anyone can shed some light on my latest problem, [ Defender SWB 300tdi 1995]

Somehow some wire managed to make contact with the front prop and as a consequence about 4ft of loom was torn out and wrapped around the shaft. I have manged to unwrap this wire and while damaged [ cannot be re-used] the length is largely intact. My problem is :- that I can't identify the broken ends in the vehicle. Here's why

1) one end of the broken section appears to have come from the multi pin plug that is on the bulkhead, just behind the air cleaner. I have found 7 broken wires around the rear of the engine. Thats not enough broken wires. Where are the rest. There must be several more torn off ends, but I can't see any.

1a) there are other wires in addition to the main cluster[ i.e. from the multi pin plug ] where are they from ?

2) The plug, and the broken wires [ that I have found ] are about 10 inches apart, yet I have about 4 ft of loom. Why all this wire ? What are the functions.?

3) I've manged to obtain 3 wiring diagrams that purport to be for my vehicle or close relative the 200 tdi. All 3 are different to each other, mainly in the colour coding. None of these 3 diagrams accurately represent my vehicle in respect of colour coding.  This makes it very difficult to deduce, what each wire is for, and where it might fit. Have I any hope of finding an accurate diagram ?

4) There is one wire in particular that is bugging me. Its quite thick [ so heavy duty-ish ] and is white at the ends, but black along its length [ very odd] . But It is one single piece. Judgeing by the damage I think was the original culprit.  It does not appear to have been wrapped in the main loom.  I can find no broken ends that match, nor can I deduce any circuit that it might have come from.

As you can probably tell my brain is hurting quite bad, so any suggestions or advice would be extremely welcome. Many thanks

Denfender loom.JPG

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I’ve got a 300tdi that I’m rebuilding at the moment, the wiring loom is out the truck and in a box so if you can take some photos of the engine bay we’re y think the wires have been pulled from and identify some of the wiring colours in that pile in your photo I might be able to help . I’m not 100% sure but some of that looks like it’s been added by someone .

cheers Ian 

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Wiring loom sections are - 

Engine loom

Dash/main loom

Chassis loom to rear of vehicle 

 

These are common to 90 & 110 models, so the longer is used in both, the extra length of the chassis loom on a 90 is looped within the chassis

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I agree with Ian, for the most part that looks like an extra DIY loom. Can’t remember seeing an OE loom using “banded” wiring, it usually has a tracer colour. 

You don’t have much going to the “back” of a standard 90/110. Both indicators, both stop and both tail, fog,reverse. In the middle you’ll have a difflock switch, reverse light switch and possibly Handbrake switch. 

These will feed from the plugs on the bulkhead down into the chassis loom (which then disappears into the chassis leg). What fuses blew when that got ripped out? Would be a rough indicator of affected circuits...

oh and more pics would help

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Well! thanks guys for your interest, comments and thought triggers. So this morning I have examined the broken bits very carefully and discovered that if you clean the wires with a cleaner product , and, look very carefully, I can list the colours more accurately than before. Not all whites wires are white for example, there are tracer colours if you look very intensly.

I have therefore made a list of the wires at the socket and what I think has torn out of the now missing plug. I've also listed the 7 wires in the engine bay. I have attached the list as a 'word' type document. Hope you can open ok. Immediately you can observe that there is little continuity either side of the socket/plug, so deciding what to connect together is going to take some effort.

I've also include a picy of what I think is the loom that has been torn out of the  plug. That the wires are all so neatly the same length is my clue. The gromment & cable tie is interesting, and I can only assume has been done to hold the loom in position.

I agree that some of the wires in my 1st picy are 'extras'. There is also clear sign that the loom has been repaired in the past and frankly not very well.

I note your comment ref 'banded' wire being non- original. To be frank I think they are original because a) there is consistence in the thickness, b) the style of the colouring and c) most of them seem to be very embedded into the non damaged bits.

I've got a 2nd picy to show you which I'm going to do in a 2nd reply . My picy files size is rather big so am limited to what I can add.  Hope this is not in breach of forum protocol. 

Defend broken loom.JPG

1811 list of broken wires.odt

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I've now added a pic of the engine bay. Front of engine to the right, nearside is at top. 1) you can see the socket minus any wires. What I think we are looking at is actually the back of the plug, [ i.e still in the socket ] minus the wires. I've tried to prise it apart but only gently and without success. I think repair is going to be easiest if I cut the socket off, and repair using old fashioned bullets and connectors. 2) If you look carefully you can see 3 bare wires coming from the top of the pic and 4 coming from the right. These colours are listed in my previous reply and continue the theme of colour inconsistency. 3) But the big crunch is that there are only 7 wires here compared to 11 at the loom header, and 10 in the socket. 

I continue to fail to identify what these wires connect to. I've narrowed down a couple, but the gaps elude me, so your continued help will be appreciated. Many thanks

Defend engine bay wire.JPG

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There's no point using a 200tdi diagram, the looms are different, though there will be many common colours. 

It does look like a lot of  those wires in your picture have been added in, maybe for an alarm or sound system?  I've never come across banded colour coding on a LR loom, always stripes. 

Your going to need to take a slow methodical approach to rectifying that lot - just start by identifying each component that doesn't work, check what colour cable powers it and match that with your main loom.  You may even find most of those wires arent attached to anything at all, a remnant of old accessories. 

 

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Hi Wontakelong, sorry can’t open your document but have identified some of the wires in your photos,

orange/black trace alarm sounder relay to alarm sounder unit

white/pink trace diagnostics socket to Ecu egr 

pink/black trace egr temp sensor to ecu egr and egr solenoid and throttle position sensor

white/light green trace from diagnostics socket to egr ecu

blacks earth

thats according to the wiring diagram I’ve linked to above .

a few of the others I can’t make out , the red and green wires with the bands round don’t look factory , have you got an after market alarm or central locking fitted ? As that wiring looks similar to what I’ve seen from those type of units .

 

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Hi again,

I've tried a different way to load my wire list so hopefully you can see in this text and attached as a PDF.

Interesting that you continue to think that the banded wires are accessories. If that proves to be correct then I'm half way home already as those accessories are no longer on the vehicle.

I certainly have NOT got any alarm fitted nor immobiliser. Nor Central locking or anything posh like a sound system. Previous owner may have fitted and removed before sale. I have removed some of his handywork already.

Didn't know that this model had any ECU fitted, Q. Where is it. ?

And to answer an earlier question - no fuses appear to have blown as judged by visual exam.

Your responses to my dilemma are proving to be very very helpful, as I'm getting a much clearer idea of the problem and how I might fix it. So big thanks to all. 

1498290279_1811listofbrokenwires.thumb.jpg.64e10ed3f3bb83cbb513a143c185cb4f.jpg

1811 list of broken wires.pdf

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The EGR ECU is under the front middle seat or cubby box. Has someone has cut it off and pushed the wiring through the hole, which has then fallen caught on your prop and ripped out everything up to the engine? Or the accessory wiring ripped the ECU wires out through the hole...

SDC13552.thumb.JPG.959665ea7b03eb43252a969619a2a64a.JPG

Most of the colours in this photo you posted (below) are for the EGR system, and that grommet is the same as the one that comes up to the ECU, so I suspect that is what has happened.

677835546_Defendbrokenloom.thumb.JPG.9419ad673d9ea6fdb7d9e4275f7a2176.JPG

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Here's a clearer photo (i chopped mine off). It means that the clump of wires with the grommet aren't supposed to go into the bulkhead connector, which narrows things down a bit!

IMGP2762.thumb.JPG.3dfb6778ab50c87c6409b064f04794dd.JPG

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Rather than prising the connector apart...the yellow face unclips and slides out (this locks the pins in place), then use a terminal tool or suitably thin implement to lift the small tabs that hold the individual pins in, they will then pull out from the rear. 

New Pins/sockets are readily available allowing you to retain the factory plugs once the broken wires are repaired. 

 

I think I have an EGR. equipped 300tdi loom hiding in the shed, I’ll try and dig it out and get a look at the plugs concerned to see if it’s any help

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Forgive me if I've missed something but does all electrical equipment on the vehicle still work?, all lighting, starting etc.? If it all works then it must be a loom that had been left and not removed after a previous owner had installed a replacement perhaps, if that's the case then there's nothing to worry about, you would be chasing ghosts.

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With every post my mood improves and the scale of this event gets smaller by the day. So you guys are making me very happy. That EGR box has been disconnected/removed and is in a box of loose bits that came with the vehicle. So chasing the loose ends is now an obvious priority, and I think will be most beneficial. 

The idea that I might obtain new pins for the plug is ace, but where do I get such items. I’ve tried several websites without success.

The wire for fuel cut out is definitely one of the broken ones, so the engine will not start. I have not completed an exhaustive test, but lots of things do still work. So indeed I may be chasing ghosts. The colour coding of the wires in the socket do not match the vehicle exactly, so deciding which is correct will be a trail and error thing I think. But this morning I think I may only need to identify 5/6 working wires to then repair and be back in business.

I can’t do anything now till Monday, so with many thanks for help so far - I’ll let you know how I progress. 

Wontakelong (a.k.a Tim )

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Evening all,

not managed to do anything this week, due to foul weather and domestic distractions. Hopefully will be back at this problem very soon, and keen to let you all know if I'm successful. All best, Tim

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W E L L !!

Good afternoon my forum friends. Very pleased to report that progress has been made, and in keeping withe the spirit of the season it has been a case of 'I've done it !' - oh no you haven't - oh yes I have. You get the picture. To say it has been a complete arsemungle is putting it mildly, and frankly if it was not for all the help and hints above I think it would have been a Swan Vesta fix.  I've found and studied carefully several wiring diagrams, including the ones you flagged up, but sadly,  none of them actually represent my Defender, so I've been picking out bits and using intuition to join it all up. Not funny.  

Here's the highlights :- 1) As you observed, a lot of the torn out section was to do with accesories that have long since been removed. So that could be ignored.

2) Another load of wires were to do with the EGR and its ECU [ which you also observed] and as that has also been removed long ago, they could be ignored.

3) So that left some fairly basic stuff which I simply cut short, and reconnected using good old bullet connectors.

4) It started ! Hurrah. Then it stopped. Oh furkling sticks.

5) This very afternoon I cut off the terminals at the fuel cut off  and oil pressure switches, and remade with new fittings and solder, and lots of thourough cleaning. It started - and - kept going !

6) So I'm very nearly home. Final outstanding tasks are to make the fuel guage work, and I'd like to discover what the white/slate wire coming off the alternator is supposed to do. Any ideas? 

F.Y.I. I'll now have a wager with you that several of those banded colour wires ARE original kit. Most of them I think are associated with the EGR/ECU. This Defender started its life in the Scottish Highlands, so perhaps it was a special tartan edition.

Anyway, many thanks guys for your kind efforts and encouragement, [ I think the job is now complete] so I wish you all a very happy new year

Wontakelong / Tim

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the only wires with a white/slate colour code but opposite way round = slate/white are door switch wires to the alarm ecu on the 300tdi diagrams that are in a earlier reply, non of these go anywhere near alternator connections.

might be worth trying to trcae the existing wire to see if you can find its other end.

 

not having seen close up a 300tdi EGR loom , you maybe correct about the banded two colour wires.

glad you have the vehicle running.:i-m_so_happy:& you can have a much happier & less stressful new year.

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Going off the Lucas colour coding, white / slate is the convention for tachometer feed. Have you got a retrofit tachometer? I don’t believe these were ever a standard fit.

These are fed from the alternator, at least it was on my RRC.

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10 hours ago, Roverdrive said:

Going off the Lucas colour coding, white / slate is the convention for tachometer feed. Have you got a retrofit tachometer? I don’t believe these were ever a standard fit.

These are fed from the alternator, at least it was on my RRC.

It's listed as "Tachometer" but in reality it is the alternator as you say; I presume the wiring diagram means the EGR ECU is using the alternator as a tachometer i.e. engine speed

https://www.lrworkshop.com/connectors/defender-1996-300tdi/C937

image.png.b5e5ef1a4147cdb6a9ae3cd22233eb9d.png

Here it is on the vehicle:

image.png.7242cce86ecd3dd0d0e2d5e19c198f53.png

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Afternoon and happy new year to you.

Today has been a good day as I finally managed to get the fuel guage working. It will only read up to 1/3 full, despite filling the tank to the brim. Nothing I do seems to change that. Meanwhile, I agree that the white/slate wire coming off the alternator is suppose to go to the EGR/ECU but as that has been removed so has that wire. I've also removed all redundant EGr wiring so now everything is well tidy. Have started the engine several times now without incident and done a few miles, - so I think I can sign the job off.

Its been interesting to observe that several terminals had been rendered dead as a result of the tug effect along the loom. To look at , one would think yeah OK a bit grubby but still intact - ergo it ought to work. Thats not true. I've had to sever and remake more than one might expect.

Thanks for picy of your alternator - different to mine of course, which you can see below. Are any 2 Defenders the same ? Also in the pic, for your interest and entertainment,  I am showing the mini loom [ opened up] that used to attach to the EGR. I've done this so you can see the 'banded' colouring.

So - a good start to 2019 very gratefull to all the contributors who have made this miserable task a whole lot easier with advice and observations. Thanks guys.

regards Tim

190102 Defend Alter.JPG

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