OT by a moaner :Stupid fog and aeroplanes

[BigSi110]

You lot are incredibly knowledgeable about planes, but the other Great British Invention you missed was / is the SR.N4 cross-channel hovercraft.

Designed and built in the UK, over 200 tonnes, capable of Sea State 6 and could and did travel at 100mph over the channel.

Powered by 4 Rolls-Royce Proteus turbines with over 16,000hp.

They're now retired and in hibernation at HMD Daedalus.

Wonderful old girls. Like Concorde, way ahead of their time and retired far too early and for the wrong reasons.

[Troddenmasses]

I've just flown into Bristol about 2 hours ago. Cloudbase was 0m & ground visiblity about 100m. I guess they upgraded.

Nope - have just checked the instrument approach chart on the AIP, and the minimum decent height without seeing the ground is 184ft above the ground for runway 09 (only has CAT 1 ILS), and 93ft for runway 27, if the aircraft is CAT 2 able. With a 3 degree decent path, that would need about 250 metres vis. Anyway, if the cloudbase is zero, the ground vis is the same as the flying vis. All I'm trying to say is that even if full autoland, with steering down the runway, and automatic steering to the gate (ILS CAT 3C) were available anywhere in Europe, it would take quite a while for it to propagate to the regional airports. Some airports simply aren't capable of taking that type of new technology, as you need a radar altimeter for safety. If there is no level ground before the runway (ie Bristol and Cardiff), then there is nothing to bounce the radalt off - hence no safety checks.

[JimAttrill]

Ah the VC10. It's amazing to me that I flew to Changi and back twice in them, but more amazing that it was 38 years ago! I also saw them being built, and helped to change an engine on one in Singapore. A relatively simple job. They used to regularly fly back to the UK on three engines, and one flew back on 2 1/2 (ie 3 engines for take-off and then the dodgy one was shut down). Of course they didn't tell the pax that

The RAF VC10's were maximised for short runways like Gan, and were rather overpowered by airline standards as a previous poster noticed.

[simonb]

You lot are incredibly knowledgeable about planes, but the other Great British Invention you missed was / is the SR.N4 cross-channel hovercraft.

Designed and built in the UK, over 200 tonnes, capable of Sea State 6 and could and did travel at 100mph over the channel.

Powered by 4 Rolls-Royce Proteus turbines with over 16,000hp.

They're now retired and in hibernation at HMD Daedalus.

Wonderful old girls. Like Concorde, way ahead of their time and retired far too early and for the wrong reasons.

Ahh yes, and its just down the road from me. They had the biggest propellers ever fitted to an aeroengine. Awesome. There is a Chris Barrie (Red Dwarf) massive machines prog on hovercraft that does the rounds on Discovery and he gives a tour round the one at Daedalus. Fantastic!

[FridgeFreezer]

Just round the corner from me too - in fact I remember when they used to run hovercraft and amphibious vehicles across the main road and down the slipway in front of Daedalus, they had traffic lights like outside a fire station to stop the cars.

[pugwash]

where's daedulus then?

i used to spend quite a lot of time near HMW cambridge near Plymouth which was always fun. it was the RN gunnery school- as a cadet i even got to go there for a couple of weeks and watch them lobbing rounds into the ocean 10 or 15 miles away. that was great fun

[FridgeFreezer]

where's daedulus then?

HMS Daedalus

[Turbocharger]

Well, to conclude my off-topic whinge, I left Aberdeen ten minutes late in perfect visibility in a two-litre Saab (SAAB-2000) with much more room inside than a Jetstream 41, flew down in an hour-ten (compared to 1:45 in a Jetstream) and landed on runway 27 with zero cloudbase but visibility of 300m(ish).

In short, I was early and undiverted, unlike a lot of people who were on the flight with me who were trying to go to Southampton. It surprises me how people will carry on arguing when they're told they're going to Bristol instead of Southampton because the airport's closed... Merry Christmas to everyone who works with the awkward public!

I don't like sitting in line with a turboprop engine's propellor - there's something about it that unnerves me.

[Guest diesel_jim]

In the mail this morning there was a story, full 2 pages, of stupi whingnig moaning public at the airports, saying how they "felt like herded cattle", well, what the f*** are the airline supposed to do with thousands of people?

and how can BA stop the fog? some people just have no clue to life whatsoever!

ah well, rant over, back to my crumpet and marmite

[cols110]

Heathrow is rated Cat 3B, so full autoland with most modern aircraft should not be now problem, the real problem is a lot of the crews and aircraft ar not maintained and trained for Cat 3 landings. Shame as it would fix a lot of problems, but as usual budgets constraints are part of the problem.

After doing a few Cat 3 landings in an A330 and B777 simulator, you have to take your hat off to the pilots who have total faith and trust in the aircraft they are flying, as they only see the white line on the runway apprearing out of the fog, just before they touch down. Scary stuff, especially with a decent cross wind blowing them around.