Anyone used a KV6 in a Landy?

[Chicken Drumstick]

With all the talk of engine swaps recently. And the talk of the T Series. It got me considering if the Tdi in my 88 was the right choice. 

It does everything I want of it. Apart from one thing, it’s bloody noisy! I’ve tried a few things to make it better and yet it is still hugely too unrefined really and loud inside.

I use the vehicle a lot, and often for long journeys, touring or laning. I would truly love to get the noise levels down. 

Sadly it seems finding a T Series engine is a lot harder than it used to be. I’m sure there are still some out there. But I didn’t find any the other evening when looking. My brother then said what about the KV6. He had a ZS180 and our Dad had a 2.5 Sterling 800 with such an engine. And they where fab. 

I know both the KV6 and the T Series mate to the PG1 5 speed gearbox. Does this mean the KV6 will also mate to something like an LT-77 or Series LT-76? Anyone done or seen anything like this?

I’m pretty sure the KV6 was only ever installed transversely which might present other issues. Although a Land Rover engine bay is pretty spacious. 

Thoughts/info?

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Chicken Drumstick

[Quagmire]

*cracks out popcorn* this could be great! Carry on.

[lo-fi]

Yep, like your thinking. If the stock ECU is tied into immobiliser stuff, your best bet might be to go megasquirt. Driving the variable induction to best effect is probably the biggest challenge but doesn't look insurmountable by any means. 

I think the 4 pots have different bellhousings to the v6, don't they? In any case, there's always a way to make an adaptor plate.

There's one on ebay for £200 you could use to measure up. I'll get the popcorn

[RedLineMike]

I've seen a build thread on a forum many moons ago of a 88" leaf sprung comp safari build with the kv6 on throttle bodies in it ,

 

Was an in-depth build thread, 

 

Found it

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/alrc-project.160626

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by RedLineMike

[garrycol]

They are one of the worst engines around - atrocious reliability - as bad as the 1800 version.  The KV6 was also used in the first Kia Carnival and they all went quickly to the big carpark in the sky as their engines cooked.

I believe the Freelander L series diesel goes in a series pretty well.

Garry

 

 

[lo-fi]

The early hand made versions had problems with manufacturing tolerances, but the later ones are supposed to be better. As for the Korean ones... 

http://s10.photobucket.com/user/Tropla/media/simons/P7209800_zpswjh2t92j.jpg.html

From this view, it doesn't much look like it'll bolt up to an LT box. He's using a PG1 with converted output flanges. 

[Bowie69]

To be honest, if you are going to the trouble making adapters/different bellhousings etc, then you may as well find a way more reliable (Japanese) engine and gearbox combination, and make an adapter to go to the LT230, which is a relatively simple affair.

[FridgeFreezer]

Well, LR used them in the V6 Freelanders, general consensus seems to be they aren't much more powerful than the 1800 or TD4 and drink lots, and have an even worse reputation than the 1800. Plus side, any still around are dirt cheap, and the K series are cracking little engines when they're working - I loved my 1800.

I've known a few people use KV6 FL's as off-road toys and they seem to work pretty well, and a FL1 weighs similar to an 88.

[Bowie69]

Putting it up against the 2.5 V6 Suzuki engine (as found in some Vitara's), I suspect there would be no contest whatsoever.

The whole 'when working is good', is perfectly true, but there's only so many times you want to be pulling things off and diagnosing issues.

[FridgeFreezer]

I bet the Suzuki would be harder to kill, certainly... but then if you're going beyond the JLR parts-bin there's infinity engines you might fit and the thread descends into the usual engine bunfight

I'd like to see some of the newer JLR stuff used rather than keep dragging 20+ year old lumps out of old scrappers - the last of the 200/300TDis and RV8's are all getting long in the tooth now, the K-Series isn't far behind... the FL2 2.2 Diesel seems to be fairly solid (FL2's seem to have a good rep generally?), the Ford TDCI lumps have been in a million vehicles including Jag and Defender, and perform very nicely and the petrol lumps are a very popular swap in kit-cars and classics.

[steve200TDi]

On 12/6/2018 at 5:08 AM, RedLineMike said:

I've seen a build thread on a forum many moons ago of a 88" leaf sprung comp safari build with the kv6 on throttle bodies in it ,

 

Was an in-depth build thread, 

 

Found it

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/alrc-project.160626

 

That's one of my favourite build thread, well worth a read!

Steve

[Chicken Drumstick]

On 12/6/2018 at 11:35 AM, Bowie69 said:

To be honest, if you are going to the trouble making adapters/different bellhousings etc, then you may as well find a way more reliable (Japanese) engine and gearbox combination, and make an adapter to go to the LT230, which is a relatively simple affair.

I hear what you are saying, but I was hoping to find a fairly "bolt-in" option, without lots of bespoke bits. The T-Series seems ideal, just hard to source these days. If a KV6 could be used instead for only marginally more effort, but allowing it to retain fairly standard drivetrain bits, then all the better. And it would seem a nice option.

 

Personally I've not heard much bad about the KV6 either. I think early handbuilt ones had a few production issues, but the 825 Sterling we had never missed a beat and then was owned by someone local for many years afterwards. My brothers ZS180 was likewise fault free.

The KV6 is a pretty awesome engine. It shares next to nothing in common with the 4 cylinder K-Series, although I like these too. The KV6 is supersmall and compact, even for a V6. It's shorter than a 1.8 K-Series and doesn't weigh much more either. It might not make the highest headline power output, but it is only 2.5 litres. 177bhp/180PS, but they have a lot more torque than the 4 cylinder engines. And I suspect with a few mods would fairly easily be provoked to around 200hp. Powerwise this is a solid 3.9/4.0 RV8 territory.

 

As for fitting one. Research so far has suggested that the O/L/M/T Series engines and KV6 share the same bolt pattern. Although I can't confirm this. This would make sense as they all mount to the PG1 gearbox. I'm not sure if the PG1 has a traditional removable bellhousing or not, being as it's a FWD gearbox.

I know the M and T Series have both been used with the LT-77/R380, although I'm guessing this is done by a specific bell housing? Anyone able to confirm if a Discovery Mpi bell housing is unique to it or not?

On the assumption of the above, I do wonder if you could use the MPI bellhousing and mount to a KV6.

[Bowie69]

The t-series thread recently seemed to point to it bolting straight up to a diesel LT77, so.....

[qwakers]

umm im fairly sure it wont. the mpi lt77 i had had a different input shaft to the 200tdi one.

[Carloz]

On 12/7/2018 at 9:01 PM, qwakers said:

umm im fairly sure it wont. the mpi lt77 i had had a different input shaft to the 200tdi one.

Maybe a VM Diesel one: it is the same as a V8. Only other bellhousing. 200/300Tdi ones are different.

On my VM RRC I just had to change the bell housing to put a RV8 instead.