Chinese diesel Heater under seat on a 110.

[Anderzander]

I was going to go planar until a good 2nd hand Webasto came up.

3 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

What *would* be interesting is to try the Chinese controller / remote with a genuine Eberspacher, because that would be a good upgrade for £15.

When the Chinese copies the Yamaha PW50 - all their parts were interchangeable. Only the quality varied - so it’s possible ....

[Ex Member]

1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said:

What *would* be interesting is to try the Chinese controller / remote with a genuine Eberspacher, because that would be a good upgrade for £15.

You can use any controller that you want.  There is zero need to use a genuine controller.  It is a simple on/off signal.

[Jocklandjohn]

16 hours ago, supaimpy said:

The Chinese and the Russian Eberspacher and Webasto copies have been tested for output and materials, suffice to say they are not constructed from the same materials,  the likes of Bosch have supplied parts  to a quality not a price.

The costs of testing and reliability to satisfy the likes of DAF, Scania, Volvo BMW even JLR , who actual purchase heaters and then assume full warranty on them  because of the testing regimes that include EMC testing , TUV and where applicable CE testing of not just the heater  but also the ancillaries such as fuel pick ups, the use of lead free solder goes someway to explain the cost differential , add in a 3 year warranty and a support network it doesn't come cheap.

Eberspacher and Webasto prime markets for Heaters are OEM, the after market fitment is a very small part of the business, almost considered an added bonus off the back of OEM supply. There are plenty of 20 year EBERs and WEB Heaters still running , so overall lifetime costs are pretty low .

My Eber D4W has been in for 20 years, still works just fine, has seen plenty use, easily repaired  - I've replaced gloplugs three times, and a few other bits here and there as they've worn out or been damaged by stupidity (not always mine!). Solid reliable piece of kit. CAVEAT - wiring integrity essential as it hates under voltage situations and will throw a hissy fit. TIP the combined controller and diagnostic read-out unit is a godsend and worth the money.

[reb78]

2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

What *would* be interesting is to try the Chinese controller / remote with a genuine Eberspacher, because that would be a good upgrade for £15.

This is what i am thinking with my eberspacher. I was dead lucky with my d1lc. Picked it up for £150 second hand and it worked straight from the box!

[FridgeFreezer]

1 hour ago, Red90 said:

You can use any controller that you want.  There is zero need to use a genuine controller.  It is a simple on/off signal.

Ah, no, I meant actual diagnostics controller using the K-Bus, not just on/off, although I'd be curious if the Chinese controller can be wired straight to the on/off without losing functionality.

[Tim2809]

2 hours ago, Red90 said:

You can use any controller that you want.  There is zero need to use a genuine controller.  It is a simple on/off signal.

agree my eberspacher 801 controller has the temp sensor built in to control fan and heat level but when i looked into it and even that looks like its just a on/off signal   

im tempted to buy an ebay special sim controlled relay to text it to start  

also an 801 can be set for for different run times so wonder if a 2 second pulsed signal will start it and run for an hour 

 

[Ex Member]

2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Ah, no, I meant actual diagnostics controller using the K-Bus, not just on/off, although I'd be curious if the Chinese controller can be wired straight to the on/off without losing functionality.

You can buy a PC interface for little money on eBay for the Webasto and hook up to all of their units.  Troubleshoot, monitor, read and clear codes and program.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Red90

[Anderzander]

5 hours ago, Red90 said:

You can use any controller that you want.  There is zero need to use a genuine controller.  It is a simple on/off signal.

What are the other wires that run to the rheostat controller for?

This looks quite neat: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232190442696

[supaimpy]

yellow wire on/off . blue/white is diagnostic, the 801 can read fault codes if have the correct model, i've got a garage door type remote to run my heater , and it has a spare switch set as well. so remote door locking or even engine isolation could be used separate to any alarm 

for the rheostat , it uses fixed resistances to control the heater output 

yes you can buy remotes , even web apps  all singing and dancing controllers, but just be careful some of the heaters are now only Can or Lin controlled.

[Anderzander]

Mine is the Airtop 200ST - so just before the CAN came in with the STC model I think. 

I found the wiring ..

The white and red works for it to just be a cold blower I think.

It looks that red and black are the simple switch for on/off - with blue and white going through the rheostat.

It would be nice if I could wire a series rheostat in there to keep it looking the part in my 80” - but I would think the chance of the resistances matching must be almost zero...

[FridgeFreezer]

11 hours ago, Anderzander said:

It would be nice if I could wire a series rheostat in there to keep it looking the part in my 80” - but I would think the chance of the resistances matching must be almost zero...

It's only a variable resistor, as long as you can make the knob fit you can put a new pot behind it - in the ambulance I've replaced the Webasto control with a custom pot + knob.

@Red90 I have a PC interface already, but I don't take a laptop camping with me and the genuine Eber/Webasto diagnostics-capable controllers are a bit old-hat, hence why I was musing about the capabilities of the more modern Chinese ones.

[supaimpy]

9 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

and the genuine Eber/Webasto diagnostics-capable controllers are a bit old-hat, hence why I was musing about the capabilities of the more modern Chinese ones.

Hmmm not sure you've seen the new TP7.1 range of controllers then,🙁 

 In the UK probably 20000 heaters PA sold and most go to commercial users such as utilities or into minibuses,that market in general wants just an on off, occasionally they want  frost stats or a timer, the major factor is simple to use, able to hit a button with a gloved hand , that's why the rheostat has survived so long.

The major market is not after market its OEM where manufacturers will integrate controls into the OEM loom and controls However the research and testing needed to get approvals for genuine controllers means there has to be big demand, and its just not there. Pleasure/leisure users who want the refinements even the marine market is tiny by comparison.

[Scotts90]

My D2 airtronic in my Transit just died on Monday, blower failure. Not bad after 3854hrs in a very poor environment! This is its first hiccup in 6yrs so I'd class that as reliable. Being refurbed overnight and will be refitted in the morning...just in time for the snow and ice to hit.

I'd have no qualms in sticking one in the 90, although it's blessed with a pretty good heater oddly enough.

[paime]

So....ultimately i need one of these. Living in Scotland with a Defender is not an enjoyable state of affairs throughout winter. That being said, i've been trying to follow the posts above and it seems like the amount of electrical know-how that goes into the installation is pretty significant. Would i be able to install a second hand unit like this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/113358764177?chn=ps with my extremely limited electrical knowledge?

 

[EDIT] Or this guy https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eberspacher-d2-12volt-diesel-heater/233040982996?hash=item36425333d4:g:s1QAAOSwqxdcDngs:rk:18:pf:0

Edited December 14, 2018 by paime

[Bowie69]

I don't think it is difficult at all, probably only 3 wires... the rest looks like plug and play control boxes and other bits.

You can often find installation guides/manuals online with a bit of a dig.

[FridgeFreezer]

18 hours ago, supaimpy said:

Hmmm not sure you've seen the new TP7.1 range of controllers then,🙁

No I haven't, but I'm willing to be they're not £14 delivered and yes I realise we're not the target / mass market - doesn't change what I'd like to see in my own heater controller if I ever get bored enough to make one!

 

@paime - They're pretty simple to wire, there's just a lot of "extra" wires for optional extras. The basic wiring is + and - battery connections, a few wires to the controller (just join the colours), and 2 wires to the fuel pump. If you're buying used, make sure you get the heater, the fuel pump AND the controller (and for the older models, the control/relay box) as sooo many of them get removed from vehicles and the fuel pump is left behind.

[Anderzander]

34 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

 

@paime - They're pretty simple to wire, there's just a lot of "extra" wires for optional extras. The basic wiring is + and - battery connections, a few wires to the controller (just join the colours), and 2 wires to the fuel pump. If you're buying used, make sure you get the heater, the fuel pump AND the controller (and for the older models, the control/relay box) as sooo many of them get removed from vehicles and the fuel pump is left behind.

And the fuel pumps aren’t cheap !! 😳

[paime]

Cheers guys, i'm watching a few on fleabay just now so will see if i'm lucky enough to nab one. Also saw this guy https://www.mudstuff.co.uk/products/mud-stuff/mud-heater-locker.html on my travels. Does anyone have one? Seems like it would make my existing cubby box a few inches higher?

[Anderzander]

Link here to where someone has dismantled the basic controller:

https://www.zinreich.de/blog/inside-the-webasto-heater-rheostat/

It seems the pot/rheostat is 2.2kw - Googling a pot of that resistance seems to show that they’re expensive?

I’d like to have used this type from the series :

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F282567885676

But I think they are only 0-20 Ohms 

[Ex Member]

12 minutes ago, Anderzander said:

It seems the pot/rheostat is 2.2kw - Googling a pot of that resistance seems to show that they’re expensive?

2200 Ohms.  Not Watts.

Starting at £2.24 https://www.mouser.co.uk/Passive-Components/Resistors/Variable-Resistors/Potentiometers/_/N-blay9?keyword=2.2k&Ns=Pricing|0

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Red90

[Anderzander]

Thank you !   And sorry for the typo.

I think I searched under rheostat and they were coming up and £89 😳

[ballcock]

You can consider buying a 24v unit and running the controller with a voltage stepper as a lot of the other components can be run on 12v or swapped for 12v parts, keeping the stepper load lower. I managed to pick up two units at the last Newbury sale one complete and the other just a base unit. The dosing pump aren't too expensive about £30 second hand on ebay.

[paime]

I'm about to push the button on this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eberspacher-D2-diesel-heater-24V/292844825163?hash=item442ee96a4b:g:cYgAAOSw2stblQI0 but the cut wires after the connector block are giving me the fear. Any thoughts as to whether or not this will give me some installation headaches?

[ballcock]

1 hour ago, paime said:

I'm about to push the button on this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eberspacher-D2-diesel-heater-24V/292844825163?hash=item442ee96a4b:g:cYgAAOSw2stblQI0 but the cut wires after the connector block are giving me the fear. Any thoughts as to whether or not this will give me some installation headaches?

There doesn't appear to be any exhaust or inlet pipework with it, and looking at the wiring block I am not sure whether there should be more of a controller than the thermostat. I also notice that it is a 24v unit so you will need to play around with power supplies.

[ballcock]

If you search for night heater there are a number of better value units for sale. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/eberspacher-diesel-heater-24v-Night-Heater/223219868629?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 this is just one. although no fuel pump search for webasto dosing pump and they are there from £30 there are also installation kits for sale. A controller can be a basic switch or make your own timer.