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ianmayco68

Intercoolers and other bits

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Good lord, someone puts facts to a discussion. Next thing you are going to let the truth stand in the way of this intercooler debate..

Daan

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Right will set it up might take a week or so as I’m on afternoons next week and there might not be someone around to take the readings while I’m driving , asked as I didn’t know if people would think they were relevant as I don’t have a set of readings for the 110 in standard form .

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Hi all , sorry it's took so long to put some figures to this but sadly my father-in-law past away and my mind hasn't quite been on it but got some enthusiasm back last week so gave the 110 a service today and fitted the thermo-couples . So took here for a short drive , but just to recap she's got an Allisport front mounted intercooler , an uprated chra in the turbo and a pump tweak , so once up to temp I took a few readings as such there not to accurate as I was on my own and trying to watch multiple things is quite hard when your on country lanes .

at idle in 29c  out 17c

doing 40 in about 60c out 20c 

accelerating hard up to 60 in at peak 97c out 22c    these figures are very rough .

I'm on afternoons next week so I'll get some more accurate readings , but the one thing that I did notice is that the in temp rose as high as 100c at one point but once the engine was up to temp the air going into the engine was never above 22c , it seemed to stay from 16c to 22c . I'll also take her for a spin down the A50 on the way home one night see how that affects the temps .

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That is a dramatic heat loss indeed.  Where exactly are you measuring?  I'm just curious.

 

 

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At the inlet and outlet pipes on the intercooler. It will be interesting to put them side by side with the results Daan got and see what the difference is . So I think I’ll do the same tests as he did just to see .

Edited by ianmayco68

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The fact that at all three speeds and inlet temps the outlet temp is pretty much the same, suggests, I think, that the intercooler you have can extract all that heat and more besides. 

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That does seem a very well performing setup, at least in what is still quite cool weather. :)

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Good temp drop. I measured 60 degree on max acceleration. I suppose you have fairly hotter exhaust gas and a turbo being worked harder, so the delta temp is higher to begin with. It would be good to get a comparison with the standard intercooler and everything else being equal to see what the difference really is.

I presume you measured this with a viscous fan and the shroud fitted?

 

Daan

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Yes the viscous fan and shroud are fitted , also the 110 is a 200tdi Defender engine don’t know whether the turbo being high up close to the bonnet would make it run a little hotter as the air might not run as fast up there and cool the turbo as much . But I was quite impressed with how low and constant it kept the temperature, it will be interesting to see what it behaves like on the 20 minute run home down the A50 . Also could the better cooling be because it’s a front mounted intercooler?

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It'd be really interesting to have standard intercooler figures to compare.

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I can't help there as I have an oversized rad fitted , but we have got the figure's Daan got from his 300tdi in his Series , I believe that was a standard set up if my memory serves me right .

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Yes, it is currently 60 degrees on a standard intercooler vs 75 degrees on the large slab type intercooler. But as mentioned, it is not a straight comparison, a different engine, different state of tune etc. Especially if the turbo is working harder, the inlet temp is gong to be a lot higher, so the delta temp that the intercooler can achieve is higher in any case.

 

Daan

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Interesting....

When I'm back from the coming NL/PL/RU Raid I'll fit the temp sensors on the 110. That's a standard 300 Tdi set up and see what I get...

 

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My 110 200tdi is standard, still with the factory size rad & intercooler, to get info where would I have to fit the sensors & which ones wouldI need, 

I've got some temp sensing labels they read from 

1 set from 71 to 110, other set reads from 77 to 127 degrees C

Would these work ??

 

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I don’t think they would western as you need to measure the temperature from inside the intercooler inlet and outlet pipes,  you’d need a couple of 3m thermo couples and a machine to read them like I got there’s a photo on the previous page cost about £30 all in . I’m on the iPad so can’t post links off the eBay app but if you search K type thermocouple they’ll pop up .

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Got a few more results today ,

idle was 26.8 in and 16.3 out

then accelerating to 40 was 71.4 in and 18.3 out . Those were from this afternoon it’s hard to log the results on your own and I haven’t got anyone to help.

Then tonight accelerating hard to 60  was 91.3 in and 16.4 out  and idle was 26.8 in and 12.7 out .

Both idle temperatures were taken at the end of the journey , one thing that I think is very noticeable is the outside air temperature affects the temperature coming out of the intercooler by quite a few degrees .

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So, as you seem to be guinea pig, it would be quite good if you could possibly repeat some of your measurements on whatever day summer is this year, to give a worst (UK) case. Quite impressive temperature drops though

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16 hours ago, ianmayco68 said:

Got a few more results today ,

idle was 26.8 in and 16.3 out

then accelerating to 40 was 71.4 in and 18.3 out . Those were from this afternoon it’s hard to log the results on your own and I haven’t got anyone to help.

Then tonight accelerating hard to 60  was 91.3 in and 16.4 out  and idle was 26.8 in and 12.7 out .

Both idle temperatures were taken at the end of the journey , one thing that I think is very noticeable is the outside air temperature affects the temperature coming out of the intercooler by quite a few degrees .

The intercooler can only bring outlet temperature at best down close to external temperature , so if the first test was conducted during the warm part of the day and the second test when much cooler, the comparison is invalid.

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30 minutes ago, Snagger said:

The intercooler can only bring outlet temperature at best down close to external temperature , so if the first test was conducted during the warm part of the day and the second test when much cooler, the comparison is invalid.

good point - external temperature at time of test would be a useful thing to log

 

Watching with interest as I currently have a bog standard tdi that I really need to increase the power on before a 1000 mile round trip towing

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It’s hardly invalid as it’s pretty clear that all the heat has been removed. That’s all you need to know. The next question is what happens in hotter ambient as a smaller temperature difference will mean it takes longer to extract and that might then mean it doesn’t manage reduce to that higher ambient. Knowing the ambients would help comparisons though. 

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Certainly will cackshifter , we might get another summer like last year  :rofl: , we can hope. 

2 hours ago, Snagger said:

The intercooler can only bring outlet temperature at best down close to external temperature , so if the first test was conducted during the warm part of the day and the second test when much cooler, the comparison is invalid.

They weren’t meant to be a comparison Snagger as I understand that outside temperature will affect the results. I thought that doing the test at different times of day would be more useful and helpful , and help to determine how much the outside temperature does affect it . I definitely think logging the outside temperature as L19MUD says would be most helpful as going to work today at 1.30ish driving steady at 30/40 and at 60 on one 2 mile stretch the out temp barely got above 10c . 

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I found that the temp drop is virtually independent of ambient temp; thinking of it, a 10 degrees higher ambient temp is going to give 10 degrees higher intake, about ten degrees hotter turbo, and the intercooler has the same delta temp to work with. So the endresult is a 10 degrees higher intake temp into the engine. So whether it is a hot day or a cold day, your intercooler does the same thing.

 

Daan

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Is that what you’ve found- the turbo outlet temperature increases by the same amount as the ambient? I’m not disputing, just surprised!

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