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Tobias

Adjust 300tdi pump timing without removing cover?

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i think I know the answer, but worth a try.

I tried advancing the pump timing through the inspection hole at the injection pump pulley as several posts describe. it turns out I got the slotted holes aligned in a way that allows me to retard the timing, but not advance. The pump is already all the way towards the most advanced setting in the slots.

I now know I should have aligned them the other way around when installing the belt.

 

is there any way to fix this, short of removing the timing cover?

Thanks


Tobias

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I can't see how you can avoid taking off the timing cover  and belt to do this - you are a tooth out on the pump pulley I suspect. 

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If it's the holes in the pulley that are aligned wrong, then no, you won't be able to adjust it. If it's just the cover plate, you can take that off without taking off the cover.

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So, having studied the internet and youtube videos, I now think I have a plan:

 

Use a dial gauge to accurately determine my currently available timing range. (e.g. 1.30 to 1.45mm)

Use a tool to be able to remove the pump without disturbing the belt.

Loosen the pump hub to reset to the desired timing range. (e.g. 1.47 to 1.62mm)

Reinstall pump and set desired timing with indicator gauge. (e.g. 1.54mm)

 

The timing pin slot will be out, but the timing will be right.

 

OK?

 

T

 

 

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In the time it's taken you to conjur that (bad) plan, you could have taken the front cover off.  Why are you procrastinating?

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On 3/19/2019 at 10:53 AM, Eightpot said:

In the time it's taken you to conjur that (bad) plan, you could have taken the front cover off.  Why are you procrastinating?

That didn't exactly answe the question.

 

I am more interested in hearing why you think it is a bad plan than to explain why I haven't removed the front cover. I know how to remove the front cover. I know I haven't done it. I know removing the front cover will not give me the accurate timing a DTI will.

Why will my suggested plan not work?

Thanks


Tobias

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if im understanding you correctly, if you do a timing belt in the future the pump will then be miss timed & you will have to go through this hassle over again,

 

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I think it’s being suggested that taking the cover off and timing the pump correctly on the belt is a better option that trying to compensate for it by adjusting the pump.

Unless the pump pulley has already been messed with and moved on the shaft, leave it well alone. The cover has to come off to re-do the timing and fix the ‘one tooth out’ problem. I’m led to believe it’s a fairly simple process on the 300Tdi.

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I am not asking whether it is what people rocomend. I know it is not by the book. I understand the hub on the pump will be mis-aligned in relationship with facotry procedure, but the whole pin-in-hole thing is just because most people changing a belt doesn't have access to the DTI procedure.

I haven't heard anyone claiming the timing pin being more accurate than the DTI-procedure, but many claiming it is not accurate enough if it is not done by DTI.

My suggestion above would be just as good as any, using the DTI, correct?

It will leave me with a mis-aligne hole in the hub, for using the timing pin procedure, which I am ok with.

It will allow me to put in a boost ring while the pump is out.

It will allow me to change my dubious pump for a known good pump.

It will NOT allow me to align the cog wheel for the one tooth out at this stage, but soon enough the engine will go out anyway and the pump hub misalignment can be fixed then. After summer.

 

So what is wrong with my suggested procedure. Why will it not work?

Thanks

 

Tobias

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3 hours ago, Tobias said:

I am not asking whether it is what people rocomend. I know it is not by the book. I understand the hub on the pump will be mis-aligned in relationship with facotry procedure, but the whole pin-in-hole thing is just because most people changing a belt doesn't have access to the DTI procedure.

I haven't heard anyone claiming the timing pin being more accurate than the DTI-procedure, but many claiming it is not accurate enough if it is not done by DTI.

My suggestion above would be just as good as any, using the DTI, correct?

It will leave me with a mis-aligne hole in the hub, for using the timing pin procedure, which I am ok with.

It will allow me to put in a boost ring while the pump is out.

It will allow me to change my dubious pump for a known good pump.

It will NOT allow me to align the cog wheel for the one tooth out at this stage, but soon enough the engine will go out anyway and the pump hub misalignment can be fixed then. After summer.

 

So what is wrong with my suggested procedure. Why will it not work?

Thanks

 

Tobias

Maybe nobody here has tried this way yet, and we are all waiting for your feed back about the success of said process 😉

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I adjusted my pump timing about 10 years ago (ie I can't remember sizes) by using different sized drill bits as pump timing pins. It's not as accurate as using a dial gauge but it does allow accurate incremental adjustment. 

Mo

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Tobias said:

I am not asking whether it is what people rocomend. I know it is not by the book. I understand the hub on the pump will be mis-aligned in relationship with facotry procedure, but the whole pin-in-hole thing is just because most people changing a belt doesn't have access to the DTI procedure.

what does DTI mean ?

 

Edited by hurbie

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Posted (edited)

I thought the pump shaft had a woodruff key to align it on the shaft but having just checked a spare pump I have, there is a key slot on the shaft but not on the pulley adaptor so theoretically it would be possible  to do as you suggest. Personally for the effort required and the risk of getting it wrong I would pull the case cover and do it properly. The extra effort to remove the pump to fit the boost ring whilst the timing is being sorted is minimal. Just realised 300 tdi mines a 200tdi.

Edited by ballcock

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1 hour ago, ballcock said:

I thought the pump shaft had a woodruff key to align it on the shaft but having just checked a spare pump I have, there is a key slot on the shaft but not on the pulley adaptor so theoretically it would be possible  to do as you suggest. Personally for the effort required and the risk of getting it wrong I would pull the case cover and do it properly. The extra effort to remove the pump to fit the boost ring whilst the timing is being sorted is minimal. Just realised 300 tdi mines a 200tdi.

slackening the big central nut is not recommended, [I believe this is stated in the workshop manual] as it is NOT keyed to the FIP shaft, it has a taper fit, if the pump shaft is moved or the timing gear hub is moved the pump may need retiming by a diesel specialist.

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In short,  removing the pump would be the long way to do it, and getting a slightly more accurate setting on the pump timing (though not accurate at all as it sounds like you want to modify it?) will have almost no effect at all.

Yes you can remove the pump flange, but when you have set the plunger depth, you now have to put the flange back on with the same accuracy, with just your fingers. except you want to make it innacurate to line up with your timing pulley.  Then when you put the pump back on and can't get the engine to start,  you need to pull the pump again and figure which way to adjust the shaft, and now you're screwed and wishing you just did it properly because you would have finished the job hours ago.  

Which is why it's not in the workshop manual at a guess 🙂

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Just to add. Always use a hex socket to undo the 3 10mm head bolts on the pulley. They will round off otherwise. Dont ask me how i know this 😵

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