Jump to content
neilc

Advice needed re noise from propshaft/gearbox

Recommended Posts

Thanks David , Ok , so (I need this clarifying because I'm simple ) I've removed the rear propshaft because the ujs need replacing ( ordered ) so I appreciate the 2wd will not currently operate however it is turning as if it's trying to turn the non existent propshaft ( not an issue ) , the FWHs are locked , the front propshaft can be seen turning through the removed floor panel , however it is not moving , I did a circuit of my road after removing rear propshaft and was so happy that the noise has gone that I thought I'd do a victory lap , however when I try to move it now it just revs as if not in gear , yellow plunger up or down , red plunger pushed forward or fully back , does the front prop turning with no movement of the wheels indicate a problem , obviously due to floor panels normally being in place I don't know if it moves when in 4wd and 2wd 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remove one hub and check it is engaging. With it removed, run engine with it in low box and in gear and watch if the halfshafts is spinning.
 

Replace hub and do the same to other side.

If the halfshaft isn't turning then the problem is that side of the axle.

If both turn, then you likely will fix it when you service the hub.

To test further you can remove the hub and fit fixed flanges. If the axle is OK, it will drive.

If it doesn't drive, then you need to remove the shafts and/or the diff to check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks David , Ok , so (I need this clarifying because I'm simple ) I've removed the rear propshaft because the ujs need replacing ( ordered ) so I appreciate the 2wd will not currently operate however it is turning as if it's trying to turn the non existent propshaft ( not an issue ) , the FWHs are locked , the front propshaft can be seen turning through the removed floor panel , however it is not moving , I did a circuit of my road after removing rear propshaft and was so happy that the noise has gone that I thought I'd do a victory lap , however when I try to move it now it just revs as if not in gear , yellow plunger up or down , red plunger pushed forward or fully back , does the front prop turning with no movement of the wheels indicate a problem , obviously due to floor panels normally being in place I don't know if it moves when in 4wd and 2wd 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will explore all suggestions. Thanks ..

I appreciate your help .

Ill let you all know ,, there's nothing more annoying than lots of suggestions and no outcome . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, neilc said:

does the front prop turning with no movement of the wheels indicate a problem

Yep. Bowie69's steps detailed above will help diagnose exactly what's wrong. As Fridge said, it may well just be a FWH that's not engaged properly. They're usually pushed into engagement with spring pressure so that the splines or teeth mesh when they first line up. Otherwise you'd be having to faff rolling back and forward or turning the prop to get everything to line up as you turn the knob. This does mean that if they are partially seized inside, the spring might not be enough to push into full engagement even if they feel like they're positively clicked into 4wd mode. Because of the differential, either one failing will lead to loss of drive. 

Good luck and thanks for reporting back for future readers :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, neilc said:

Can I please clarify something , I'm on the understanding that the front prop turns 100% of the time 2wd or 4wd , is this the case ?, if this is the case I'm hoping that its just carp in the front casing that covers the rods or an issue with the pin or swivel mechanism at the other end of the yellow lever , it is going down but may not be engaging enough . Rear prop currently off but I'm confident that when I put it back on with new ujs that it will at least work in 2wd 

With the vehicle vehicle stationary, any gear and 2wd will turn the rear prop shaft, half shafts and rear wheels.  4wd (high or low) will also turn the front prop shaft and half shafts.  If you have standard hubs, the shafts will turn the wheels.  If you have free wheeling hubs, then if engaged, the wheels will turn but if disengaged the wheels are not driven by the shafts.

When driving, 2wd will provide drive to the rear prop, half shafts and wheels, but not the front system.  If you have standard hubs or free wheeling hubs are engaged, then the wheels will be turning the half shafts and prop shaft, even though the prop shaft is disconnected from the innards of the transfer box.  If the FWH are disengages, then the wheels will not turn the shafts, so the front half shafts and prop shaft will be stationary (or slow).  

Driving in 4wd (high or low) will cause both prop shafts and all drive shafts to be driven by the engine, but disengaged FWH disconnect the front half shafts from the wheels and so while the gear box is turning the innards of the front axle and the car's motion is turning the front wheels, the front wheels are not driven.  Engaging the FWH will cause the front axle to drive the wheels in 4wd.

Remember that the differentials are "open diffs", so if one wheel on an axle looses grip, it'll spin up while the other ceases to be driven.  That is not a fault.

However, if a component fails, then drive is lost at that point.  If a single half shaft or hub fails, then that axle behaves as if grip is lost on that corner and the opposite wheel will lose drive too, and this appears to be what has happened in your case - the rear axle has been isolated while you repair a worn out prop shaft, but the front axle has been disabled by a fault in the diff, half shaft(s) or hub(s).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Morning / Evening .

So this morning I have raised both wheels 1 at a time , when I rotate them both individually in FWH lock and unlock they do not rotate the propshaft , where should I go next ? The 4wd does seem to engage because it is turning the propshaft but the wheels don't turn the propshaft and the propshaft doesn't turn the wheels ? Would a faulty FWH stop the other side working , if I dismantle hub what am I looking for ?

Edited by neilc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so the problem is definitely with the axle not the gearbox. Yes, one broken or not properly engaging FWH will cause those symptoms. As will a broken half shaft. 

Next steps:

Remove the FWHs. It should be pretty obvious if they're seized or broken.

Rotate the end of a half shaft. The other end should rotate the opposite way or the prop flange should rotate. If not, you've likely got a broken half shaft or UJ. 

Before getting too far in with anything else, have a look at the hubs though - they're the most likely culprit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The simplest thing to do, I think is to fit the standard flanges to the front hubs.

Purely for testing, swap them from the back and test again, off road.

 

G.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok massive progress today , I cant seem to get the FWH off ( advice needed please ) however I did get the front of the FWH off so I could see the shaft , So , the internals were all covered with grease ( not a bad thing ) nothing was rusted , however the wheels turn by hand with hubs locked or unlocked , , wheels however do not turn propshaft....but if I place wheels on ground whilst I press gas the halfshaft on the drivers side can be seen turning in the hub ,but not catching and the one on the passenger side moves intermittently , so hopefully it's the hubs. All I need to do now is to get the hubs off ,any advice please ? ,  I have taken the bolts out however ivd been trying to pry them out with a hammer and chisel , its moves slightly but not a lotb, is it just a case of peservance !! 

Thanks for all the ongoing help , I'm assuming now that it's the hubs not catching the rotating shafts . 

Can I buy original hubs X2 as a kit or do I need to buy individual parts ?

 

Oh ive just seen there's a castellated nut , I'll sort that out to remove , there was so much grease in there that I could see it , I'm thinking 2x dustcovers  , 2 x  split pins  ,
2 x castellated nuts 2x large washer 12x bolts , 2 x hub driving member gaskets  , do I still need the felt washers , if so can you still buy them ?

 

lo-fi your video was very helpful thanks .

Edited by neilc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From memory there is a circlip on the half shaft retaining the centre part of the FWH. You will need to remove this as well as the bolts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice, sounds like it's the hubs. Double check what half shafts you've got before buying anything. Should be 24 spline rather than 10, but you never know if it's been swapped out by a previous owner. Drive flanges are available as pairs, felts etc. are all available. Castle nuts and washers can be re-used unless they've been frackulated - might save a few pennies. 

Post some pics of the hubs if you get stuck removing. Glad you found the YouTube helpful! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are different makes of FWH, and as you might imagine the mechanisms inside the covers are different.
If you tell us the name or initials on yours we may be able to sort you out with the appropriate instructions.
A photograph of the covers may also help (a picture of the 'covered in grease' parts probably isn't as helpful).

Regards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll take a lot of photos tomorrow and forward , thanks , being that one of the half shafts literally isn't turning when the other is leads me to think that the half shaft on the side is also broken , being that it isn't my daily ride anymore (it was for a long time ) I have the luxury of opening it all up to see what I need first rather that getting loads of parts I don't need and returning them but I'll let you know .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are the same hubs as mine , mine aren't as clean and shiny , selectro.

 

 

Screenshot_20190211-092700.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was the hubs which is a massive relief the annoying thing is ( probably eBay them ) that 99% of them are in perfect working order , I'm assuming it's no surprise to others that the little metal barbed clip that slides up the thread and depress the surround around the spline had deteriorated .

What a lot of fuss about a badly designed metal clip , I'm just ordering some fixed hubs , I really appreciate all of your contributions. 

Thanks again .

I was ready to give up and sell the bloody thing (regular accurance).

IMG_20190211_123230596_HDR.jpg

IMG_20190211_125853641.jpg

IMG_20190211_125858435_HDR.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you might want to do the front wheel bearings while you're in there, judging by the amount of crud that's apparently gotten past the seals on the FWH's, otherwise I predict you'll be having the whole lot apart again in the near future ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seconded, otherwise you might want to sell it again in a few months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll do that thanks , does anyone sell these fragile metal clips that fail in the FWH , ( I'm not refitting them, just wondered  ) it just seems a massive waste , these FWH have failed due to a clip that looks like it could be made for 50p breaking , not a great design .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, neilc said:

... does anyone sell these fragile metal clips that fail in the FWH , ( I'm not refitting them, just wondered  ) it just seems a massive waste , these FWH have failed due to a clip that looks like it could be made for 50p breaking , not a great design .

What fragile metal clips?
I've looked through two different presentations of Selectro Installation instructions, which have included an exploded diagram of the parts, and cannot identify the parts you describe.
Again, a clear picture would help.

Regards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a picture of the barbed clip , as you turn the dial it works it's way up the thread and pushes the collar over the spline , the metal is as thin as a paperclip , one had broken off , awful design 

IMG_20190212_153903574.jpg

IMG_20190212_153858173.jpg

IMG_20190212_153619850_HDR.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy