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Gazzar

Auxiliary heaters and pre heaters

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Having grown up on a market garden farm I have a deep abiding dislike of the cold.

I've decided that the standard Smith's shin burner in my lightweight project isn't going to be good enough, so am hoping to augment the hearing.

I'd like something that preheats the engine. And dumps oodles of hot air into the cabin before I start it.

Is there a single product that does this? Or do I need both a planer (genuine Russian) and a webasto?

And can I buy good second hand?

Thanks.

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An aftermarket Webasto coolant heater has a pump to circulate coolant and a trigger output to run the heater fan to warm the interior. The factory fit versions are much the same device, but some don't have the coolant pump, as they are intended to run with the engine on.

I wouldn't say it gets oodles of hot air into the cabin, but it's enough to defrost the windows and take the edge off the inside on my Ibex. Also full engine heat comes on stream as soon as you start driving. It won't get you any warmer than the standard setup, but it'll get you there much quicker.

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Also Eberspächer Hydronic does the job: with build in coolantpump. When a certain coolant temperature is reached it starts the ventilator of the interior heather to warm the cabin.

My father has one. He can start it by calling his car with his mobile to start the heater. In the car is an old cell phone (moded by my dad) which switches the pre heather. Of course there are also original Eberspächer devices like clocks and remote controls to start the heather.

Edited by Carloz

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Adding to what TSD says you could use a coolant heater and fit an additional heater into the system. Eberspacher do a small matrix with a computer style fan on the back. There only about 4" cubed there are others similar.

Mike

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Eberspacher , D4wsc with fan control , 35c and the controller will operate a relay , I have mine on my defender and have added a matrix in a box that will have my cubby box on top. You can operate with a simple on off switch , and add a remote very simply.

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This is good!

There are a lot of second hand units on eBay, petrol pre heaters.

Are they coded or keyed to the car ECU, or is there a universal ECU? 

 

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Just be careful some of the OEM heaters are built by the big manufacturers under license, and the ecu's have their own diagnostics,  also be careful to ensure they are not just CAN or LIN signal controlled.The original supply contracts mean officially spares support is via the OEM not Eber or Web.

If you can get a fabric number from any prospective Eberspacher purchase I can look it up and get a better idea of spares support and controllers.

 

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Many of them are standalone and just need a 12v signal to make them switch on, but some are CAN controlled etc.

I know the Thermo-Top fitted to Freelander 1 TD4's will run standalone easily, think they were in Rover 75's and Disco 2's too.

There's a lot of people out there tinkering with them so googling any prospective purchase should throw up someone trying to make it work.

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The engine pre-heater usu. gets the coolant up to around 60 C after some 15-20 mins.

A friend made me an "ECU" that starts the blower (also powered from the 2nd battery) and the non-standard heater gets the 110 quite warm. The unit can work on a thermostat (when sleeping inside) or by remote.

Warm engine means easy starting (even by minus 25 C. high up in the mountains while camping) and less engine wear (so I've been told)..

We 're about to start fitting a unit like this to the Series Hybrid this Summer and look forward to use the thing.

Getting into a warm car is really, really nice.

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I have a webasto coolant heater from a TD5 D2 you're welcome to play about with? It may be missing the fuel pump though; I could neither find it on the vehicle or confirm that it's internal to the unit with a brief Google. It does have the coolant circulation pump built in and present. 

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Interesting stuff this. I'm glad I raised the topic so far in advance of the engine fitting.

I'm thinking I might need to really think about the fueling on this. At present the plan is to have an in tank pump and separate return, and I'd rather not have a third take-off from the tanks. Oh, and it's petrol, so that's another consideration. 

Thanks for the offer of the unit to play with, is it a diesel unit? 

Or does it matter?

Thanks.

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Ah sorry, its diesel! The petrol models seem harder to find cheaply second hand, I guess they're much less common. I've only got this one because it got removed to make room for a clutch booster on my mates old D2. 

I've been wanting to do something like this myself, but my 109 is petrol. Torn between a second tank with diesel and the space that takes up (plus filling considerations) or shelling out for a petrol model. I'd like to run the circuit to the heater with an auxiliary matrix and have a couple of valves that can isolate it from or join it to the engine coolant circuit so it can be used as a straight cabin heater without heating the block, or to preheat too. 

Regarding fueling... You're going efi, aren't you? If so you're pretty much going to have to have a separate supply line, I think. I doubt the dosing pump will take kindly to high pressure at the inlet, and the return won't be suitable to tee into. If you were going external, teeing into the inlet side of the pump would be fine. 

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I've got petrol vehicles and I run both versions;

The 109 has a small(ish) diesel tank in the back just for the diesel Eberspacher (D1LC).

The Ambulance has an eBay 3L swirl-pot in the return line with a takeoff to the petrol  Webasto (ST2000), which is enough to run it flat-out for days. Return line keeps it topped up, Webasto draws from the bottom port, return to tank comes off the top.

And yes, petrol ones are much rarer.

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Swirl pot in the return line is a great idea! I like your thinking. 

What tank did you use for the diesel and how do you access it to fill? Sorry for the small thread hijack Gazzar! Hopefully useful info/discussion for you too. 

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On the early Webasto's  the only difference between the petrol and diesel versions was the gauze the fuel burnt on I'm not sure about the newer versions. If you get a parts manual you may see which parts are common to both. I personally would have a diesel unit with a second tank which allows you to run the heater on red diesel or heating oil. I have just picked up a newer unit to replace my old one but this needs a canbus signal to operate it came out of a VW. So I am looking for a timer or telestart at the right price.

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At 0.1 litres/hour I don't mind running it on premium :lol:

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On 2/28/2019 at 12:12 PM, FridgeFreezer said:

not keen on that exhaust joint being inside the vehicle nor drawing combustion air internally either 

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On 3/1/2019 at 9:15 PM, supaimpy said:

not keen on that exhaust joint being inside the vehicle nor drawing combustion air internally either 

We were in a hurry and the truck needed to be able to wade headrest-deep so that's where it went - the 109 is draughty enough that I'm not going to die of CO poisoning even if I just vented the exhaust straight inside the cabin.

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I’ve been watching this thread as I’m planning on redoing the heater on my project and the 110 later but know nothing about eberspachers or Webasto . I’ve found a used thermotop z from a rover 75 zf for descent money which I believe I can fit to my 90 , and use it to preheat the truck and also run the heater off it with the help of a blower and matrix . But I need some help can someone point me in the direction to a thread we’re some one has done this and help with any other parts I would need. 

Cheers Ian 

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6 hours ago, Badger110 said:

Interesting site you have there!

It has kept me amused and enlightened for hours

Wow you must be bored! :lol:

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John, you're clearly the one with the practical experience to ask on this.  The Airtop types are evidently better for just heating the cab (or a tent with a duct), but if you want engine pre-heating, then the Thermo-top type is the one to plumb for, but would take longer and more fuel/battery power to get the cab warm.  Each has pros and cons.  But for typical northern European year-round conditions, which would you say is more useful?  How beneficial is engine preheating outside of the Arctic Circle?

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Hard to say, I suspect the prevalence of water heaters as OEM fit is a packaging thing as much as anything, you can use the existing heater fan + matrix etc. and they're easier to tuck away somewhere without big fat air ducting to route.

I guess the question is what you're using it for - warming a running vehicle up faster (as OEM do) I'd go water, warming a parked vehicle overnight you'd want air otherwise you're heating a huge engine block that's just dissipating heat back out to the environment.

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If I'd gone ahead with my install I'd have had a water heater, helper pump and matrix on a circuit that could either be joined to the normal heater circuit or isotated from it. A two or three valve design would work. That way you get an extra heater matrix off the engine too, which is ideal for the rear of the vehicle. 

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