rangie rear axle Vs. series salisbury rear

[hedley]

Im 'recycling' a rangie and a series 3 to build a challenge hybrid.

the series 3 has a good salisbury rear axle, and my question is; is it worth converting it to coils/discs (and series diff in the rangie front axle) just to gain the extra strength?

or do i just fit the standard rangie rear axle?

I have been looking at the recent posts on converting series axles to discs using standard rangie bits and was wondering if it is worth while in my situatuion

any help on the subject would be most appreciated.

as for my fabrication skills, im gd with the grinder and my dads v.gd with the welder, but neither of us have access to a lathe...

thanks in advance

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Can't give a definitive answer BUT I have seen many rangie type diffs replaced in the field. The Salisbury need special kit to change it IIRC. Also, the abililty to upgrade the innards of the rover axle would appear to be greater than with the Salisbury.

[Andy]

ive got a feeling coiler & leafer axles are different tracks, worth bearing in mind when thinking about this.

[TJ101]

Not a lot of help Hedley,, but with those new big BFG,s need a much strength as possible

The hybrid runs a sailsbury on the rear !!

[FridgeFreezer]

I have seen many rangie type diffs replaced in the field. The Salisbury need special kit to change it

You won't need to change a salisbury diff in the field - they are waaay stronger than Rover ones and can be converted to discs using genuine LR parts from a 110, do a search here. MogLite converted his Ibex to Salisburies front & rear for that reason.

However, as correctly pointed out by Andy the coiler axles have a wider track not to mention different diff ratios so you would have to swap both axles anyway.

As you are building a challenge truck I guess the lower weight rating of the RR axle won't matter as you're not going to be hauling heavy loads.

[hedley]

You won't need to change a salisbury diff in the field - they are waaay stronger than Rover ones and can be converted to discs using genuine LR parts from a 110, do a search here. MogLite converted his Ibex to Salisburies front & rear for that reason.

However, as correctly pointed out by Andy the coiler axles have a wider track not to mention different diff ratios so you would have to swap both axles anyway.

I knew the salisbury was alot stronger, this is why im contemplating doing the conversion. I know the diff ratios are different, hence in my first post i said about putting the series diff from my current front axle into the rangie axle to correct the difference.

as for the track issue: a series with a salisbury axle has short outriggers (about the width of the chassis rail) protruding on the outside of the normal chassis that picks up the fixed and swinging pivots of the leaf, therefore the spring mounts on the axle casing must be further apart than on a rover axle (which pivots directly under the chassis), but i dont know if the overall track is wider...

As you are building a challenge truck I guess the lower weight rating of the RR axle won't matter as you're not going to be hauling heavy loads.

heavy loads? the last big thing the rangie pulled was dads tractor some 400 miles, with the tractor and 14ft ifor weighing in@ a little over 3.5tons and the rangie loaded to the gunnels (with roofrack as well) as we moved to ireland, so there is no problems with pulling enuff!

luckily i wont be moving back!

gd old tdi's...

i was looking more for info by those that had put coils/discs on salisbury/series axles, like moglite and tonk have done, to find out how difficult that part is.

and the rest, as they say, is easy...

thanks for input so far.

[FridgeFreezer]

All series axles are narrower track than coilers, salisbury or rover. The Salisbury is rated to a higher axle weight (EG load directly in the back of the vehicle) than the Rover axles, this would not affect towing as the car only sees the nose weight not the full load. From half way through Series 2 all the way to the later 110's they have fitted Salisburies on the back of LWB's so they must have a reason to do so.

You're stuck between poor brakes or poor strength - you can disc the rear axle easily but that leaves you with a rover front to convert, or you can sling RR axles under and gain discs but lose strength. I guess it depends on your engineering ability and how far your wallet will stretch. These days it's not too far down the Rover upgrade route before things like Mog 404's start to look like good value, but that's another discussion altogether.

[SOA 93]

I can only assume that you are using, the series 3 body on the Rangie chassis? If this is the case then don't bother with the series Salisbury.

The shafts are not much bigger than your Rangie shafts and as already mentioned the track is a fair bit narrower.

The salisbury comes with one of the strongest diffs available while Rovers in 2 pin flavour must be one of the weakest.

If you want a salisbury for the diff strength then sourse a 110 version no fabwork, just bolt on

Don't fit the series diff in the front axle the 4.7 CWP is quite a bit weaker than the coiler 3.54 CWP.

The outriggers and springs on the 109 were moved out from under the chassis for stability when loaded, they are the same width as all series axles.

It really is worth spending alot of time trawling through ALL the posts on this Forum, it would take a few evenings you quickly learn which are worth reading and which can be missed, but there is a great deal of info relating to your project in here.

Andy

[minivin]

that's what I have been thinking all the way through, why not source a 110 Salisbury, and if your lucky your track down a cheap disc braked one in the deal.

I believe John on here has used 110 and rangie parts to fit rear discs onto his series, with the rumour that early rangie and early 110 used the same brake callipers...... Where's Mr White when you need him

[EFILandRover]

Dont stuff around with rover diffs, unless you can find a 4 pin one. I took a range rover I picked up cheap, to have a play a couple of weeks ago. The only thing I did was put 7.50x16 SAT's on, and the diff blew apart on me. Wasnt even pushing it that hard.

110 salisbury is probably the best, but they need shaving so they dont drag everywhere.

[Andy]

get a 2nd hand detroit for the rover axle. much stronger & lots more grip. i run the stock 10spline shafts & 235/85s on my disco - only broke one shaft in two years & im not that gentle with the thing.

[FridgeFreezer]

I wouldn't say Salisburies *need* shaving, they don't drag that much (1" below Rovers?) and that's only at the lowest point anyway.

Also, you can break anything if you try hard enough - some people can grenade rover diffs every outing, some people can make them last ages - it depends what you do and how you drive. If you're entering challenges or racing then yes, you'll break stuff. If not, just have a bit of mechanical sympathy!

[missingsid]

Dont stuff around with rover diffs, unless you can find a 4 pin one. I took a range rover I picked up cheap, to have a play a couple of weeks ago. The only thing I did was put 7.50x16 SAT's on, and the diff blew apart on me. Wasnt even pushing it that hard.

110 salisbury is probably the best, but they need shaving so they dont drag everywhere.

I'm not going to say RR 2 pin 3.54 diffs are strong cos they aint

However I've been runninig a Series 1 V8 with SATs for 20+ years on general off roading, play days and hard on road, drifting etc (general hooliganism when younger) and only blown a rear diff once.

You don't have to trash a motor to get it up a hill etc.

But if you want a challenge motor then yes there's probably no point using a standard RR diff.

[Spanners Akimbo]

I'm not going to say RR 2 pin 3.54 diffs are strong cos they aint

However I've been runninig a Series 1 V8 with SATs for 20+ years on general off roading, play days and hard on road, drifting etc (general hooliganism when younger) and only blown a rear diff once.

You don't have to trash a motor to get it up a hill etc.

But if you want a challenge motor then yes there's probably no point using a standard RR diff.

While the salisbury is tough it's also bleedin heavy. On our comp safari motor we've used standard rangie diff's for years without problems, and that's pushing 230hp through maxi diamond tyres. The main weakness with the rangie diff is the fact that under shock loading the crownwheel flexes away from the pinion which tends to shear the teeth off. You can stop this by pegging the diff. This is easy to do. If you look at a standard diff casing there is a flat face imediately behind the back face of the crownwheel. Drill and tap this to take an couple of M10 bolts. Then take a couple of fully threaded M10 bolts and screw a full nut onto each one all the way up to the head. Apply loctite to the bolt threads and screw them into the diff housing until they only just clear the back of the crown wheel (1-2mm). Run the nuts down the thread and tighten them against the diff casing to stop the bolts from coming undone and it's job done. This will improve the strength of the diff 100%.

Of course there still the chance that you'll break the pin in the diff, and it does happen, so for ultimate strength you'll need a 4 pin diff, but these are expensive.

If you want bombproof what I would Suggest is source a wolf front axle, they have massively strengthend casings and shafts and a 4 pin diff as standard. Cheap they are not! Alternatively the disco 2 axles are very popular with compers now and have a reputation for being extremely tough, however the mountings will need to be changed to suit, this is really not a five minute job, but you may be able to find a landrover specialist, with a jig who'll do it for you for a price

From personal experience apart from pegging the diff, beefing up the A frame ball joint mount on the axle and possibly sleeving the axle case, I would use a standard rangie axle on the rear. Why? well unless you spend an absolute fortune you'll never achieve a completely unburstable drivetrain, if you abuse it enough something will break. If you delibrately make the weakpoint the rear axle, and if possible the halfshafts (or shaft if you beef one side up but not the other). Then odds are when something does break it'll be easy to fix. Beef up the axles then the propshafts will break, beef up the propshafts then the gearbox will break etc,etc.

I know what I'd rather change in the middle of a muddy field!!

Greg

[isuzurover]

Some specs to help you decide:

Rangie Diff - 8.25" diameter spiral bevel cw and pinion

Salisbury - 9.5" HYPOID cw and pinion (hypoid diffs have more teeth in mesh so are MUCH stronger - even for identical diameters)

Rangie diff - 1 cross shaft and 2 tiny spider gears

Salisbury - 2 cross shafts and 4 spider gears

Rangie diff - 1.1" diameter, 10-spline halfshafts (but can be upgraded to salisbury size)

Salisbury - 1.24" 24-spline halfshafts - but can be upgraded to 1.3" 30 spline or 1.5" 35 spline (and beyond) using Dana 60 components.

Also - a SIII and a one-ten Salisbury have a short halfshaft the same length.

I never ever regretted fitting a salisbury. And as for changing one in the field - (1) you won't need to, and (2) removing the centre and crownwheel is a matter of 5 minutes with a spanner and a tyre lever. Refitting just needs a soft hammer. Removing the pinion gear is another matter though.

The Salisbury need special kit to change it IIRC. Also, the abililty to upgrade the innards of the rover axle would appear to be greater than with the Salisbury.

As mentioned above - no special kit required.

No upgrades are needed for the salisbury - BUT - there are actually more upgrades available (most ex US) if you use DANA 60 parts - which are almost identical. There are people in the US using Dana 60's with 44" wheel and not breaking anything.