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ivanlrlukic

Clutch? problem, 110, 200tdi, r380

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Hello folks,

short intro first: owner for 7 years, went through seals and one master cyl. replacement (2017), had problem with slave seals replacement (reported to forum here: (

). Soemtimes (not allways) I felt clutch slipping when driving in 5th after sudden accelerator pedal pushed to the floor - only the engine responds with higher revs, but no change in vehicle speed. Seldom gearbox rejected to shift in reverse, but on second try it went. Since last year, in a two months a tea spoon of clutch fluid would be needed to top-up the reservoir.

About a month ago LR hasn't been used for about two weeks, it has been parked in sloped street, nose down (if that is important). Car was left there in perfectly running condition.

Was in a hurry, jumped in and went off. Just after start it was clear that any gear cannot be selected w/o high force and grinding sound. Because I was in a hurry I continued and finished short trip w/o clutch.

In a following days a check was made and conclusion was that every gear can be selected when engine off, but none when engine on :-(.

In next days clutch was bled, no bubbles, only black fluid (can be seen in reservir as well), still cannot select any gear when engine running. Idea popped my mind to try to extend clutch plate travel by extending clutch slave rod travel by setting clutch pedal to higher distance from floor (than stated in manual). And voila! I can change gears even when engine running w/o grinding sounds!

With a lot of confidence in own LR mechanical skills jumped in and went off. Cold shower - grinding sound again.

Then new test has been made: when engine idling any gear cen be selected, but on higher revs - not any!

For about two weeks now I drive LR 3 times a week, change gears up and down with double declutching (w/o accelerator pedal in between) and more time between gears (in order to cease engine revs). No any other problem evident.

My question is: should I try to replace master + slave + flexi hose first, and then to go complete clutch replacement (plate, spring plate, rel. bearing, lever, spigot, rear main seal), or to go to complete set replacement at once (to shorten repair time), or there are other problems (gearbox...) that could produce problems like mine?

Sorry for long post...

Regards, Ivan.

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Hi There....

Black fluid would suggest worn clutch master / slave rubbers wearing.

Probably sensible to change both master and slave at the same time and adjust your pedal height as per Haynes / Land Rover manual when re-fitted.

 

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Hello again,

decided to try first with simple (and cheap) solution: today clutch slave and flex hose were changed.

Clutch bled with slave hanging on the hose, pedal reset to the 14 cm.

Still cannot engage any gear with engine running :-(.

Afterwards the pedal was again set for the larger travel (> 14 cm from floor) - gears can be selected with engine running.

I guess new clutch (+ pressure plate + clutch bearing + rear main seal + spigot bush) is my next try.

I believe I red on the list that "stumpy" box has heavy dutu clutch fork. Is that right or should I add it to the former list of new parts?

Regards, Ivan.

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Adjusting the master cylinder/ pedal travel has no affect to the slave cylinder rod, that is a fixed length. 

Either your master cylinder & /or slave may need replacing. 

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On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 9:11 PM, western said:

Adjusting the master cylinder/ pedal travel has no affect to the slave cylinder rod, that is a fixed length. 

Either your master cylinder & /or slave may need replacing. 

Western, I have to ask: if clutch circuit is semi closed (open when pedal is released, but closed when depressed), wouldn't following be true:

longer pedal travel =>

longer master piston travel =>

more fluid pumped from master to slave =>

more clutsch slave piston travel =>

lonfer slave pushrod travel =>

longer clutch fork travel?

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I know if the pedal travel/free play is not correct it can/will cause clutch slip. 

The fluid amount increase would be minimal it's the pressure that does the work. 

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Following V8 freak's and Western's advice a new clutch master went in (Girling), pedal reset to correct height but problem still persists (cannot change gears with engine running).

Cheap (and dirty trick) used again: pedal is set to higher distance from floor (~16 cm) and gear changes are ok.

I consider the problem (temporary?) fixed, I do not plan to split engine and gearbox until problem gets worse...

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Possibly wrong slave pushrod or the socket on the operating arm is breaking away, have you set the clutch pedal end float & tightened the 2 nuts. 

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The black fluid sounded suspicious of a hydraulics problem, but if new cylinders and hose didn't solve it, I wonder if the drive plate has rusted to the flywheel or the long travel on the pedal is because the fork has burst its pivot dome.

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Hmm......

I have had a slipping clutch under load (towing a trailer) that turned out to be caused by back pressure in the system.

Adjusting the pedal travel, I had over tightened the pedal - causing the pedal to disengage almost directly and working fine but seems to keep a certain amount of pressure in the system, keeping the clutch from fully pressing against the flywheel, causing it to slip.

Could be something to consider..

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This isn't slipping, though - it's dragging badly or not disengaging at all, if I understand the posts correctly.

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If over adjusted it won't allow anymore fluid into the master cylinder with pedal up so can restrict fluid going through to the slave. 

Also has it still got the slave cylinder spacer fitted between it and the gearbox. Later replacement slaves don't need it 

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I believe I've read on the forum that R-380 has HD clutch fork by default.

Can somebody confirm or deny that statement?

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Only when fitted to a V8 or Td5 engine - the forks on these are very strong. When fitted to a 200Tdi or 300Tdi it uses the standard clutch fork which should be reinforced to prevent premature failure.

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