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ThreeSheds

Engine crane, electric winch, Tirfor or something else?

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Hi,

I am very proud of the fact that I manage to do all jobs on my cars by myself - with use of tools and equipment, but for the last 15 years I have not had any human assistance (the dog sometimes helps a bit)...

Now I face the problem of offering up a front winch bumper on the D2 and I find that I can no longer handle that kind of weight (I am 65) so am looking for a way of hoisting it into place and supporting it while I fit the bolts.

Notes:

  • I have free access to sufficient scaffolding for a well over engineered gantry.
  • I don't normally borrow or hire things, preferring instead to use need as an excuse to satisfy my continual desire for new tools...
  • I didn't set out to get a winch bumper, but there were some very cheap ones on ebay one evening after I'd had a beer or two :D
  • I do however, now quite fancy having a winch :)

 

Initial thoughts (with pros/cons) are:

  1. Engine crane and balance bar.
    1. I have seen one I like the look of  that would cost about £230 including the balance bar.
    2. I would probably never use it for it's intended purpose (at my age I don't even buy unripe bananas :D )
    3. I could use it at a later date when I get round to fitting a body lift, but can't think of any other upcoming uses...
  2. Electric winch with scaffolding gantry
    1. I will probably buy a winch anyway, so maybe I should buy one now and bolt it into the  bumper, then use it to lift the assembly into place using a scaffolding gantry?
    2. This option would cost about £600, and I wasn't really wanting to spend much more on the car until it passes an MoT...
    3. On the plus side - a winch would look really cool, and secretly we all want our cars to look cool eh? ;)
  3. Tirfor with scaffolding gantry.
    1. Not really sure that I have the youth/vigor to use a Tirfor for its intended purpose, so again it may be a one use expense of possibly £200...
  4. block and tackle with scaffolding gantry
    1. Probably a one off expense of about £50

 

The reason I am asking here is that I have IMMENSE respect for the experience and knowledge of people on this forum and so your comments/thoughts/advice/guidance are all welcome, but of course I reserve the right to completely ignore all of you and do something totally stupid instead...

 

Cheers

Roger

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Are you close enough to anyone to borrow something ?  Would you consider that ?

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option 4 would easily manage it but the bumper is really not that heavy

 

Assuming that you can lift it and just not hold it whilst its bolted up why not just balance it on crates/wood lifting it up and packing it underneath until it is at the desired height and the bolts line up?

 

How snug does the bumper fit - does the winch need to be fitted before the bumper is fitted to get enough clearance to fit it?

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9 minutes ago, Anderzander said:

Are you close enough to anyone to borrow something ?  Would you consider that ?

Nah mate - I don't borrow tools... I enjoy buying them too much for that :D

 

3 minutes ago, L19MUD said:

option 4 would easily manage it but the bumper is really not that heavy

Assuming that you can lift it and just not hold it whilst its bolted up why not just balance it on crates/wood lifting it up and packing it underneath until it is at the desired height and the bolts line up?

In the past I have bench pressed a front bumper into position and held it with my knees while fitting the bolts, but I fear that I am too old, and this bumper is too heavy, for such shenanigans now...

I think the wood idea is good - why didn't I think of that? Senility probably. I will try that. Thanks!

DAMN! No need to buy more tools now...

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I've used a trolley jack to lift and hold heavy items in place while bolting things in to place (it helps having a smooth floor to roll it on).

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Strap it to a jack as zardos says. That way you can go up, down, in and out with ease.

Mike

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37 minutes ago, L19MUD said:

Assuming that you can lift it and just not hold it whilst its bolted up why not just balance it on crates/wood lifting it up and packing it underneath until it is at the desired height and the bolts line up?

Precisely...

That coupled with a trolley jack, and a couple of ratchet straps to pull things into place should get you lined up nicely :)

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Buy two winches. Fit one to the bumper and make a crane with the other one so you have a new toy to play with.

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Scaffolding and a chainblock are a useful combination for this sort of thing. It’s what I use on engines/gearboxes. 

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If, like me, you are a proper cheapskate offer pizza and beer to two burly mates.

If you really, really need to buy tools, a combination of a jack and long axle stands.

I'm a long way from you but I have an engine crane and balancer that gets used for lifting heavy stuff up and sometimes gets lent out. (You would be amazed by the number of jobs you can use an engine crane for, other than lifting and removing engines).  

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I have the engine hoist you linked and am pleased with it. I've even used it for unloading heavy stuff out the back of the car / off a trailer. The sticky out legs get in the way sometimes but I guess it'd fall over without them. It would easily do it although depending on the shape of the bumper you might not be able to get the straps where they need to be to get it in the right place and level. The grill might get in the way or might trap the straps and this is true for any lifting from above. Lifting from underneath would be easier. I've done it before by jacking one side then the other and putting blocks under. Very slow but it's only a one off...

Or if your wanting to buy a toy you can get the high lifting pallet trucks which can double up as an adjustable height work bench or tool stand that you can move around with you. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Lift-Pallet-Truck-1Ton-Capacity/264274568042?hash=item3d87fde36a:g:ABQAAOSw6CBcq0mE

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150kg-Hydraulic-mobile-scissor-lift-platform-table-trolley/264274645906?hash=item3d87ff1392:g:BBoAAOSwmkJcq1wv

As the bare bumpers aren't that heavy could you get a friend or two to lift whilst you put the bolts in? I know what you old fellers are like, offer them a brew, a slice of fruit loaf and a couple of hours chatting afterwards about the good old days and you'll be fighting them off :P

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No need to buy bock and chains. Just use ratchet straps. I'm sure you have some laying around the place. You can attach somewhere on the car, Like onto the engine itself. Or you could build something with scaffolding.

Ratchet straps are as good as a second pair of hands in many cases!

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A transmission jack is ideal for a heavy winch bumper - wider and more stable than a trolley jack.  

Otherwise a trolley jack and a pair of axle stands will get it up and help keep it stable till you can get a couple of bolts in.

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Brilliant! Just as I expected, loads of really good ideas here. Thank you one and all. 

I am thinking trolley jack, and wooden blocks with perhaps some ratchet strappery thrown in for good measure. 

I'll let you know how I get on. (I might even take a picture)

Should get it done tonight as long as it rains - otherwise I'll have to cut the lawn!

 

Thanks again :)

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I am not that far from you (c. 18 miles) and have a Tirfor winch, pulleys, straps etc. that I can bring across if you are struggling.

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A nice Epco transmission jack would be ideal and give you something to refurbish or repaint if your into that kind of thing, also you know old diesel forklifts are pretty cheap all things considered...

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Posted (edited)

I think we need another photo without the supports... you know.... not that we don't believe you........ :P:P

Edited by bishbosh
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The next stage...

20190417_184350.thumb.jpg.ea20deeecebb672293fc3e8527ff804f.jpg

 

Bolts in...

20190417_184932.thumb.jpg.a51b49014e0231156dd4a0b6745d4b7f.jpg

And finally:

20190417_191959.thumb.jpg.fba9422b4c0c5233dd95f1f8bec7ae11.jpg

 

It looks high because it's still on axle stands...

Hmmm I think I will be needing a steering guard...

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You have HD bars, no need. :)

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A diff guard may be

 

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6 hours ago, zardos said:

A diff guard may be

good point...

8 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

You have HD bars, no need. :)

true, but it would look better... Maybe I'll make one out of plywood :D

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Thinking overnight on this bumper... Looks like it will be coming off again :(

You see, from memory I would say that the holes in the chassis are about 12mm, and that the holes in the bumper are slotted clearance for 10mm bolts (which is what the original bumper was fitted with). This means a lot of potential movement.... Good when trying to line things up but bad when considering that the bumper needs to take both ground impacts, and recovery loads.

So my thinking is that I should open the slotted bumper holes a bit, mount the bumper using 12mm bolts (if I can get them through the chassis), and use thick washers. Then, once the position is good, the washers can be welded to the bumper, thus effectively locking it in one position.

Extra work, but I'm in no hurry... My old RRC took 4 years to get back on the road, I don't think that this will take that long but <shrug> it takes what it takes...

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There is no real reason to do that, as long as the clamping force is enough (the original engineer should have had that sussed) then it shouldn't move under impact.

You're not relying on the bolts to pin it in place, but the friction between two clamped bits of steel.

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1 hour ago, Bowie69 said:

There is no real reason to do that, as long as the clamping force is enough (the original engineer should have had that sussed) then it shouldn't move under impact.

You're not relying on the bolts to pin it in place, but the friction between two clamped bits of steel.

Good point... And in actual fact making it a fit might make it worse since if it did move, the bolts would be placed in shear?

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