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youngengineer

Power loss, No boost, white smoke on startup

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Posted (edited)

I recently installed a boost pin on my 200TDI and noticed that I progressively started loosing power thereafter. My boost would always peak at 1.3bar with plenty of power. By the end of the day I was seeing only 1 bar of boost, if I held the throttle wide open for more then 2 seconds then boost would fall to 0 and it would feel like the turbo was no longer spooling.  I went back to the standard pin thinking that this was the issue however this made little difference so the issue seems to be unrelated. Three days later I cannot even reach 0.5bar boost and the engine feels very sluggish. Startup from cold is now creating plumes of white smoke which takes forever to clear.

I've been using SVO (Sunflower new from Tesco) which was run through a pre-heater for the last 3 months without issue. However I feel like this may have now finally caught up with me.

The first thing I have done is drain the tank of veg and replace with fresh diesel with injector cleaner. Next thing was to inspect the transparent pre-filter which was clean and without any debris, next I removed the pickup from tank to inspect the wire gauze.

I then fitted a brand new lift pump. This all made no noticeable difference to to performance. I have inspected the turbo for free-play and seizing as-well and manifold gasket and everything is ok.

I have run an airline at 20psi to boost diaphragm and it can be heard actuating correctly

I have blown out all lines from turbo to boost compensator

A brand new turbo was installed 6 months ago with new manifold gasket.

All fuel lines, hoses have recently been replaced with silicon ones and are leak free

Boost hose from turbo to inter-cooler is very old but I don't believe it is the problem.

Any ideas welcome. The only thing I can think of is a blockage somewhere in the injection pump or injectors. As this issue has been progressive and not sudden.

 

Edited by youngengineer

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4 hours ago, youngengineer said:

Startup from cold is now creating plumes of white smoke which takes forever to clear.

This usually suggests lack of compression or pump timing out. A compression test and check the timing are probably both good moves 

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I run cooking oil, usually used, normally soya, using a two tank system usually starting up on diesel.

Starting up from cold on oil, (if I forgot to purge while hot), produces a very slow start, even with lots of glow plug, clouds of white smoke and lumpy running until it gets up to temperature. Cooking oil is much more viscous that diesel and the standard lift pump struggles with cold oil. (At some point I need to source and install an electric lift pump and an inertia cut off switch).

We have had quite a warm winter; try and get it hot on diesel and see if the symptoms persist.

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14 hours ago, jeremy996 said:

I run cooking oil, usually used, normally soya, using a two tank system usually starting up on diesel.

Starting up from cold on oil, (if I forgot to purge while hot), produces a very slow start, even with lots of glow plug, clouds of white smoke and lumpy running until it gets up to temperature. Cooking oil is much more viscous that diesel and the standard lift pump struggles with cold oil. (At some point I need to source and install an electric lift pump and an inertia cut off switch).

We have had quite a warm winter; try and get it hot on diesel and see if the symptoms persist.

 

Yes I agree. Startup on veg is very smoky. Which I have become used to. But we are talking about a whole new level of smoke here. Something is off with injection pump. As previous poster mentioned I believe low pressure. I may strip the pump and run through ultrasonic cleaner.

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Since putting diesel in it seems like theres no more smoke on startup. Only issue is that theres almost no boost now. I mean really nothing. Gauge shows 0.3 under load and vacuum without load.

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The wastegate is stuck open or severely cracked, or the pump isn't supplying enough fuel to create enough energy to spool the turbo up. Have you checked the wastegate actuator? 

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Have you checked the hoses on both sides of the turbo? A delaminates hose on the inside can cause that sort of fault. Either by sucking in and collapsing on the intake side or ballooning and splitting on the pressure side. 

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Posted (edited)

Problem seems to be with pump. I've tried turning the star wheel all the way in till it bottoms out and it no longer makes any difference. No smoke from exhaust nothing. Before even 5 clicks would make a noticeable difference to smoke and power. Turbo fins seem in perfect condition with no play. So do all hoses. Wastegate is actuating as it should at 0.7 bar.

 

I also removed the air filter which is new and in perfect condition and I'm now getting 0.7 bar continuous. But I have a feeling that this has little to do with the filter as it's clean and less the 300 miles old.

 

Either there is a blockage in the pump or the boost control system has failed.

 

Engine starts and runs well and as normal but there is no power on boost. Is there any way that the fuel boost pin damaged something? If run it without the nylon spacer 

Edited by youngengineer

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How many miles have you done with the boost pin? And where was it from? There are a lot of poor quality ones out there which aren’t hard enough and the pin in the fuel pump that rides up the angle of the fuel pin actually wears a groove in it. What the exact characteristics of that fault are I’m not sure but worth a look. 

@NRS91 will know.

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i may have missed it but have you changed the main fuel filter?

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Main fuel filter is around 100 miles old. There is a clear pre-filter i installed which is clean as I can see through it. The return flow to the tank is very good so I don't think its a fuel delivery issue. 

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15 hours ago, youngengineer said:

Main fuel filter is around 100 miles old. There is a clear pre-filter i installed which is clean as I can see through it. The return flow to the tank is very good so I don't think its a fuel delivery issue. 

Was that 100 miles before you started having issues? 

For the cost of a filter I'd put a new one on as all the symptoms are of fuel starvation. 

Only other thought is that youve gummed some internals up in the VE pump which is throwing the governor off. A quick trick is to fill a fuel filter with neat injector cleaner then run the engine for 15-30secs so it's filled the fuel injection pump, lines and injectors then leave it overnight to break down the gunk

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NRS91 said:

Was that 100 miles before you started having issues? 

For the cost of a filter I'd put a new one on as all the symptoms are of fuel starvation. 

Only other thought is that youve gummed some internals up in the VE pump which is throwing the governor off. A quick trick is to fill a fuel filter with neat injector cleaner then run the engine for 15-30secs so it's filled the fuel injection pump, lines and injectors then leave it overnight to break down the gunk

Not a bad idea. I have a spare used filter which I know is good. I will blow it out and replace with Injector cleaner. I will try as you said. But if this was a fuel stavation issue on the low pressure side then the return flow to the tank would be weak and it is not. So this sounds like an injector pump on the high pressure system issue to me.

Edited by youngengineer

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I'd say:

At first - stop running it on the wrong fuel!

Yes, low-spec edible-grade veg-oil is cheap, but it's really not a good long-term diet for a modern Diesel-engine.

You may save a bit in the short-term in terms of fuel-costs, but after a few years/few tens-of-thousands-of-miles you find you need a new FIP, the cost of which takes-out the supposed 'saving' you made from running on carp fuel.

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Posted (edited)

Never heard a 200tdi referred to as a "modern" engine before.

 

If I was racking up tens of thousands of miles then a reconditioned FIP would be offset within the first week so there would still be a strong incentive to run on veg as it is half the price of diesel.

 

Yes I've most likely gummed up the pump but a good used one is £200 so it's already been paid for 5 times by savings.

 

I think the issue here is that I never purged the pump with diesel which is a big no-no.

 

 

Edited by youngengineer

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I've resolved the problem. Turns out that the throttle linkage had slipped. I was only getting half throttle

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"doh"

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guessing the white smoke on start up was just the veg oil then?

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I don’t really understand this. Why would half throttle be the cause? Don’t doubt. Just don’t know why. 

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The smoke seems to have been caused by incorrect use of veg oil - not purging back to plain diesel when shutting down. The turbo issue is simply that half throttle doesn't produce enough exhaust energy to spin the turbo up. 

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Ah yes sorry, I should have read the thread at the top again. 🙄

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you have to love the Tdi throttle cable , I usually put a short bit of 8mm rubber pipe cut down it's length with a couple of cable ties up against the "nut" to stop it unwinding

Veg oil is a short term saving when used neat imo

glad it turned out ok

cheers

Steve b

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