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Importing a non-registered defender

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Hi All,

Hopefully, this is the correct forum, but please feel free to move...

I am wondering what would be the best way to import a “bitsa” D90 from Oman to UK.

I de-registered my old 110 years ago, and salvaged as many parts as possible to build the 90. I built the D90 on a second hand galvanised chassis. 300tdi engine and auto box from my old 110 conversion - originally from a disco. New galvanised bulkhead. All door frames, capping etc galvanised. Griffin exhaust. Td5 fuel tank. SS brakelines. Discovery axles. Custom dash  NAS style padded roll cage from a 90SV.  New ROW chassis and engine  looms. I built this with the intention of keeping it for a bloody long time, hence the extensive galvanising  

My original intention was to register the vehicle in Oman on my old 110 VIN, as this is, or was, perfectly acceptable here. It should then have been relatively straightforward to export the vehicle. However,, it looks increasingly like I will not finish the build before needing to leave Oman.  I have way to much time and effort invested in this build and would dearly like to bring it back to UK to finish.  Is this possible or would I need to break the vehicle, import the parts as spares, and rebuild on a new chassis in UK?  I’m not happy with the existing chassis so would happily buy new in UK.  Or, import as spares, purchase a D90 in UK and rebuild that with my parts?  Any ideas?  I really need to find a way to keep this one...

TIA

Mark

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I can't help with import but you can register it here as long as you have documentation to proof origin of the major parts this will land you with an age related (if you have enough parts from one vehicle) or a Q plate. Either way you will need an IVA test. This is not impossible but you may need to make some changes to get it through.

Mike

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Thanks, Mike. 

Axles, engine, gearbox, and suspension all came from the same discovery. These bar the suspension were fitted to my old 110, before being removed and fitted to my 90. Bulkhead is new, chassis 2nd hand. I have the VIN from the donor discovery, which should allow traceability of serial numbers fitted, but would that help given they are now fitted to a defender?

Bringing the vehicle over in one piece would certainly be preferable.  If I were able to register the vehicle in Oman under the 110 VIN, which it seems is acceptable in Oman, and even though it would not be roadworthy, would the 110 VIN be acceptable in UK when attached to a 90?  Does anyone know of a reputable importer that could help me with this?

thanks again

Mark

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I think one issue you may have is the second hand chassis, technically this is where the ID would come from, and the disco is just parts.

IVA would be required either way, as Mike said.

Honestly though, this is not the place to get advice for this sort of thing, you need to contact the proper authorities in the UK and get everything in writing before doing anything, or you could end up a very unhappy bunny.

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Couple of options

You can bring the vehicle here no problem, no need to dismantle it. 

When it gets here you need to notify HMRC, apply for a NOVA certificate and pay duty and VAT - though even this may be difficult without an identity.   NOVA cert is required before DVLA will register it.

Registering it with DVLA will be a headache as it does not have an identity, VIN number, log book etc.   They may not register it at all, which is very likely,  they may issue you with a DVLA VIN number (which you will need to have stamped on the chassis) and issue a Q plate following an IVA test.  I sincerely doubt they will ever offer you an age related plate.

Or -

just import it as a very unfinished project, don't apply for a NOVA certificate and if most of the parts were bought from the UK you may get away without paying duty and VAT.  If you use an import agent they will guide you on this.  You will not be able to register it with DVLA.   Buy a project 90 in the UK and use it as a base to use your shiny parts on and have an identity.

I would do the latter.

 

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I have it on good authority that no land rover of any description including the last defenders will pass an IVA.

To register it with DVLA you will need to prove the build date and identity, they will want a VIN as that is what they use to "in their words age "  a vehicle, it has to be stamped in the chassis.

Within the S2 club we have had problems registering imports that left the UK as CKD kits as it is very difficult to prove a build date.  The date the kit left land Rover or their agents in the UK is not accepted as the build date nor is a heritage certificate although an authenticated copy of the relevent page from Glass's check book is (if you can get the page authenticated).

There is no club to support you.  The S2 club is only authorised by DVLA for S2s and S3s

Peter

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1 hour ago, Romahomepete said:

I have it on good authority that no land rover of any description including the last defenders will pass an IVA.

Sorry, but this is completely wrong.

 

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Is there a vin number stamped in the chassis? And is this number a from a UK registered vehicle? This is the bit that DVLA is going to ask. Depending on the answer to these questions, you have to plot your plan. If it is the 110 VIN number, you can't use it in the UK to run a 90.

 

Daan

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My information came direct from DVSA!!  They conduct the tests!!.

So they must be wrong.

Peter

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Hmm, well, ask Daan above, having put a LR through and SVA.

Also, there's different types of SvA, and different rules depending on construction and all sorts. I suspect he was talking about trying to pass an IVA as a new vehicle which is whole different kettle of fish, or possibly testing for construction and use, which would fail completely.

 

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DVLA will want a bit more than a UK VIN for an imported vehicle.  They will require a NOVA certificate and if they are being awkward proof of the original export.

I deal with DVLA on a weekly basis on behalf of the S2 club and the rules can be interpreted differently on each occasion

Peter

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Well this passed an IVA.

20180820_200605.thumb.jpg.ace2e9256fba872010bd21439ed6d647.jpg

Land rover running gear. Wheels were different mind.

You would need to do some mods but a standard defender could pass an IVA.

If you can't prove the age you get a Q plate as I did.

Mike

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Imported Land Rovers unless unless you can prove the build date will be required by DVLA to have an IVA (as per new vehicles) and according to DVSA they will not pass.

As I said in my last comment They interpret the rules differently each week.

We used to be able to get S2 land rovers registered with DVLA without a chassis number,( they would provide us with a number to stamp in).  Two and a half years ago they unilaterally decided that no chassis number then it would have to be Q and an IVA.

I have posted in the military section a copy of a letter from DVLA about not being able to exchange a Q plate for an age related.  Over the years we have been successful with that but it is no longer allowed

On various forums people quote how successful they have been in dealing with DVLA but I am talking about what it is like now.

Peter

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I am sure you could build a vehicle using Land Rover running gear and other parts and mod it to pass an IVA just like any "kit car" but DVSA say that even the last of the defenders would not pass an IVA in standard trim.  Their words not mine.

I have friend who builds kit cars on Suzuki Vitara running gear and he can get them through an IVA but he puts a lot of effort into the mods

Peter

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DVLA only want a build date as last resort (which is where authorised clubs or organisations come in to verify, usually against  archived records), and that's when they drop down into low gear to try to find a technicality to stitch you up on.  Low grade admin assistants like to feel clever and important, and its always easier to reject an application than to actually process the job.

They prefer date of first use as with home market cars, which of course comes with the issue of a registration certificate.  

 

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Posted (edited)

It involves a bit more than that.  With older vehicles they may ask for proof that the vehicle exists even if it is on the database

They require "proof", home market vehicles not on their database are easy but at the moment I am dealing with a 1961 vehicle first registered in 1981.  Where had it been for the first 20 years? it is not ex mil nor does it appear to have been exported.  Fortunately as the S2 club is involved they will accept a club inspection (we are authorised by DVLA to inspect) otherwise it would have been an inspection by SGS who only look for numbers.

As said before they now require evidence (usually photographic but it can be a rubbing) of the chassis number stamped into the chassis.  They are obsessd with vehicle fraud.  Even without a chassis number the club can date a S2 to within 3 or 4 months due to the number of changes that were made and have been recorded in the club archive, however DVLA still require the chassis number for dating purposes.

Plus their web site is contradictory which does not inspire confidence.  I know from the cases that I have dealt with there are things that were accepted 12 months ago that they will not accept now.  What got through in the past may not get through now.

I am watching with bated breath, there is someone on facebook who is building a lightweight on a coil sprung chassis (range rover I think he said).  No documents or identities for either donor vehicle and when complete he intends to sell it.  The purchaser will have no chance.

Peter

Edited by Romahomepete

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Thank you all for your replies.

So if a  110 VIN would not be acceptable in UK, there would be no point in registering the vehicle in Oman first.  I purchased a crash damaged td5 90SV, from which I salvaged a number of parts, and for which I still have the VIN plate, but I suspect that registering in Oman with that VIN would still leave the problem of using a second hand chassis.

Best bet seems to be, as Eightpot suggests, to bring the vehicle over as an unfinished project, purchase a donor in UK, and rebuild the donor on a new chassis with my “shiney” parts.  Would this be the least risk method?  Given the time and money spent on this project, I would hate for the vehicle to be seized or destroyed.

Can anyone suggest an import company that could help with this?

Thanks again. 

Mark

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Just noticed that MinistryofDefender http://www.ministryofdefender.co.uk/custom-land-rover.html claim to build new 300tdi defenders from new and refurbished parts, and then register with DVLA as a new vehicle. How is this possible without using an existing VIN? Or does this result in a Q plate.  Would this be an option for me in order to avoid the need to buy a donor?  I ask because, having just researched 2nd hand defender prices, the asking prices seem extremely high even for basket cases.

Thanks again

Mark 

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DVSA [formely DVLA/VOSA] will issue a VIN from their database so it won't be a genuine LR VIN starting SALL*********** 

They will want to see all paperwork for the new chassis & all the other parts.

 

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2 hours ago, muscat said:

Can anyone suggest an import company that could help with this? 

Just search for freight forwarding or container shipping agents in Muscat.  Get a couple of quotes.  You will need someone local to arrange for a container, transport to docks, clearance and forwarding documents etc.   They will usually have details for a clearing agent in the UK and just link up with them on your behalf, if not there are plenty to choose from, or drop me a line and I'll give you some contact details for one.

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Thanks, Eightpot. 

There are any number of freight forwarding companies here.  We will need to ID one relatively soon to ship our household effects, but my concern is finding one that will understand, and be familiar with , the UK requirements for import.  I will take you up on your offer for contact details via PM. Many thanks. 

Mark

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I will have to go through an IVA with my 130, the key to it is which category you are fitted into. As non commercial businesses we are commonly assigned to the 'Amateur Built' category, you can argue for another category if you think it applies but at the end of the day they decide. The only evidence they really accept of the build taking place is the step by step photographic record, if you don't have that from your first build then I think you will have to 'Re-build' This is for a  generic DVSA chassis number.

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