Simon_CSK Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 This engine swap is fighting me all the way grr. Before I even tried lifting it in the bay I destroyed two flywheel bosses before I found out that there was two lenghts of bolts used. Shorter oned on the Gems and longer on the Thor. I ended up stripping the threads on the two. Now refitting the engine I am having a nightmare trying to line up the V8 with the autobox. I worked out that if I fitted blocks where the engine mounts were I would resolve rotation so would only need to line up vertically and twisting. Got it very close and thought I could pull it together with the bolts but have managed to get it twisted and have not undone everything. When bolted up I tried to turn the crank and I needed a power bar which I thought was wrong especially with no plugs in. When I released the tension on the bolts the crank rotated much easier. Am at the end of mt teather and getting eady to throw a match at it. All suggestions about lining up the engine welcome. I have never had this problem before and did it without proper hoisting equipment. This time I bounght a new engine hoist however it doesn't quite have the reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 There is no real lining up to do, my question to you would be is whether you have checked the depth of the torque converter to the face of the bell housing? This needs to be right or you smash the oil pump in the box as you bolt it up... Find your gearbox code and check it against the list on ashcroft site (a quick Google will get you that) to find out how deep it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR-HIPPO Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) Re engine hoist lacking reach. On my hoist, the lifting hook is on a few links of chain that hangs from a bolt. The bolt passes through the lifting arm a little way in from the end, the chain then drops vertically through a slot in the bottom the arm. I managed to get a little more reach by feeding the chain into the end of the lifting arm, and then attaching the chain to the bolt. The chain now comes forward off of the bolt, and hangs out of the very end of the lifting arm. This does not give me loads more reach, but prior to doing this, I lacked the reach to replace Defender engines without first removing the front bumper. Now I can change engines with the bumper still attached to the vehicle. Edited June 13, 2019 by MR-HIPPO I spell like a tard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted June 13, 2019 Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 Just now, MR-HIPPO said: Re engine hoist lacking reach. On my hoist, the lifting hook is on a few links of chain that hangs from a bolt. The bolt passes through the lifting arm a little way in from the end, the chain then drops vertically through a slot in the bottom the arm. I managed to get a little more reach by feeding the chain into the end of the lifting arm, and then attaching the chain to the bolt. The chain now comes forward off of the bolt, and hangs out of the very end of the lifting arm. This does not give me loads more reach, but prior to doing this, I lacked the reach to replace Defender engines with the front bumper attached. Now I can change engines without taking the bumper off. Thanks good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted June 13, 2019 Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: There is no real lining up to do, my question to you would be is whether you have checked the depth of the torque converter to the face of the bell housing? This needs to be right or you smash the oil pump in the box as you bolt it up... Find your gearbox code and check it against the list on ashcroft site (a quick Google will get you that) to find out how deep it should be. Bowie Thanks, firstly where can I get the code then tell me about smashing the oil pump I don't like the idea of that and fear that it may be too late. Thanks Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 HP22 box: https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/automatic-gearboxes/zf4hp22.html HP24(probably this one) : https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=52 Box code is on the name plate on the left hand side of the gearbox. If the torque converter has moved or you had it off the box, you really need to check this. Also, as you have mentioned the crank boss, you would do well to make sure you are using the right one. If you are unsure, but are sure you have the converter in far enough, then mean from face of engine mounting face, to the face of the flex plate that bolts to the torque converter. This should be a couple of millimetres less than the depth figure you measure between the gearbox bell housing and the bolt bosses on the converter. If you clamp it up hard with wrong clearances you smash the pump in the gearbox. Not the end of the world to change, but either engine or gearbox out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted June 13, 2019 Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 Just now, Bowie69 said: HP22 box: https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/automatic-gearboxes/zf4hp22.html HP24(probably this one) : https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=52 Box code is on the name plate on the left hand side of the gearbox. If the torque converter has moved or you had it off the box, you really need to check this. Also, as you have mentioned the crank boss, you would do well to make sure you are using the right one. If you are unsure, but are sure you have the converter in far enough, then mean from face of engine mounting face, to the face of the flex plate that bolts to the torque converter. This should be a couple of millimetres less than the depth figure you measure between the gearbox bell housing and the bolt bosses on the converter. If you clamp it up hard with wrong clearances you smash the pump in the gearbox. Not the end of the world to change, but either engine or gearbox out! Thanks again I did clamp it hard . I think either way I need to separate the engine and the gearbox as I am not sure I have the correct boss now that you mention it. The best method will be to drop the box now that way I can get the engine plumbed in and tested. Do you know what is involved with the oil pump and how will I know if I have damaged it? It seems with this every time I take a step forward I go back three. It is driving me nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Oil pump is like this, and sits on the input to the box: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-P38-2-5-Hp22-Auto-Gearbox-Oil-Pump-Very-Good-/292801260406?redirect=mobile I guess you could remove and examine for breakage, but normally just run the engine and test drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted June 13, 2019 Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 22 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Oil pump is like this, and sits on the input to the box: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-P38-2-5-Hp22-Auto-Gearbox-Oil-Pump-Very-Good-/292801260406?redirect=mobile I guess you could remove and examine for breakage, but normally just run the engine and test drive. Well the engine is coming out for the 4th time then Doh will need to check the boss and the distance. Something must be out somewhere. I did read on Ashcrofts site that it is the starting of the engine that causes destruction of the pump. Bowie as always you have been a great help thanks very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 Bowie Got the engine out again!! The flex plate is bent back where the torque convertor has pressed against it. That tells me that the Torque converter must have moved forward so I need to find the id number. I cannot find any id on it there is a bar code on the bell housing but I cannot find the id plate. Help appreciated. Once I have that I can fiddle with the torque convertor until I can get it back it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Well, good news in a way. You have found a cause for the installation issues. Box label should be on left side of the main gearbox body, so you need to crawl under and have a look. Otherwise, you need to measure stuff as I outlined above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 I did check the boss and the and the diametre is correct. I do hope I can find the plate, have been looking for it and not found it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted June 29, 2019 Author Share Posted June 29, 2019 Yeee Haaa Finally got the engine in and one bolt at the top of the engine holding it in. In the end it slipped in very neatlyone I have the torque convertor in the correct position. Tiny little movements and no forcing the two went together like a dream. Thnaks to all for your help 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 I know it’s a bit late now but on Landy’s Range Rovers etc if I’m taking the engine out I always prefer to take out and install the engine and box as one unit, without the transfer box , they are a damn sight easier to bolt together on the floor of the workshop . Obviously if I’m just taking the box out (on a lift ) then that’s what I do . Might help you for next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 Ozzy I have the engine and box out and I did seriously thing about putting them back in together and could see the appeal however my engine hoist didn't have the capacity or the reach to allow me to do that. In the end the gearbox wad gently lifted into place using levers and jacks on the floor of my paddock then the V8 was lowered and the suspension raised until it gently slid into place. I total with my ham fistedness I had the engine in and out about 8 times until I was happy that everything was as it sould be. Am still in the process of final connections but expect to be finished by the end of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 And it fired up on the button. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 EEEEEXCELEEENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Well Done !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 Thanks guys. After all that I have been through I waas really dreading turning the key and nothing happening. Now just need to sort the props, fix an exhaust leak and an air spring and off we go to the MOT. Then get some miles on it before a trip to Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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