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JimAttrill

What do you think of the 'new' Defender?

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Looks like a Chelsea Tractor to me.

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It's looking like a very nice car, potentially a good substitute for a 3 series BMW or an Audi A4.

 

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85 ecus. It's not a Defender, it's just yet another generic, expensive to repair, waste of money. £49k for the basic model? Only rich people will be able to afford risking taking off road. The only off road it will see is pulling the horse box across a grass field.

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30 minutes ago, JimAttrill said:

Looks like a Chelsea Tractor to me.

 

it's alive!!! 😛

 

The Lego was also launched yesterday: https://www.facebook.com/LEGOTechnic/videos/515831112323283/?t=32

with AWD, a proper hi-low transfer case, IFS, working winch!!!

SWAMBO is thrilled, can't wait to order it!

Edited by Naks

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Does the Slovak defender have a transfer box?

 

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Loving the Lego version - must order one for me the kids at Christmas. It'll probably quite expensive for Genuine lego parts though. Perhaps there will also be a cheaper Britpart version.😉

Simon...

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12 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

Does the Slovak defender have a transfer box?

 

 

Yes, and unlike the p.o.s British version, it will actually be a quality product.

 

3 minutes ago, simonpelly said:

Loving the Lego version - must order one for me the kids at Christmas. It'll probably quite expensive for Genuine lego parts though. Perhaps there will also be a cheaper Britpart version.😉

Simon...

Simon, I saw a price of 159.99 pounds on a Facebook post earlier.

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50 minutes ago, Naks said:

 

Yes, and unlike the p.o.s British version, it will actually be a quality product.

 

That's the first time I've heard anyone refer to the LT230 as that!

It has flaws, but is strong and reliable in most installations, is it not?

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24 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

That's the first time I've heard anyone refer to the LT230 as that!

It has flaws, but is strong and reliable in most installations, is it not?

the LT230 is generally good, but has a tendency to self-destruct under certain circumstances.

it's more the rest of the car I was referring to: rubbish build quality, not surprising seeing that it was British hand-built.

Brand new Puma in 2010 had a bent axle, for which I had to fight LR to get a replacement. Gearbox replaced after a year or so, ditto for rear diff. It's had a few clutches replaced, can't even remember if it was 3 or 4 times. 

For the past 2 years it's developed a drivetrain vibration that keeps loosening the prop bolts, and two of the best indies in CT haven't been able to sort it out, so haven't been able to use it for that time.

so yeah, British hand-built? no thank you.

 

btw, the new one has a low crawl ratio of 51.5:1 for diesel versions and 57.2:1 for the six-cylinder petrol.

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Well, enjoy your new 'Defender' Naks, I'd avoid those 2 indies you've been using up until now for maintaining it though 😊

Mo

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8 hours ago, Naks said:

the LT230 is generally good, but has a tendency to self-destruct under certain circumstances.

it's more the rest of the car I was referring to: rubbish build quality, not surprising seeing that it was British hand-built.

Brand new Puma in 2010 had a bent axle, for which I had to fight LR to get a replacement. Gearbox replaced after a year or so, ditto for rear diff. It's had a few clutches replaced, can't even remember if it was 3 or 4 times. 

For the past 2 years it's developed a drivetrain vibration that keeps loosening the prop bolts, and two of the best indies in CT haven't been able to sort it out, so haven't been able to use it for that time.

so yeah, British hand-built? no thank you.

 

btw, the new one has a low crawl ratio of 51.5:1 for diesel versions and 57.2:1 for the six-cylinder petrol.

Let's not forget the JLR is an Indian company. Dodgy parts are the fault of the accountants, not the engineers. 

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Hear you there...accountants to support the business, not define the product strategy. Occurs sadly in most engineering businesses...

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1 hour ago, Pappa Smurf said:

Let's not forget the JLR is an Indian company. Dodgy parts are the fault of the accountants, not the engineers. 

 

There's always been accountants, so what is your point? Hopefully it's not that because they're Indian they're cutting corners/quality?

If LR was so good, how come it had to be rescued by the Germans in the 90s? And then they flogged it to the Yanks when they realised that a turd it was, and they in turn couldn't walk away fast enough. 

At least Tata gave LR a chance when no one would touch them, and it paid off, both for the latter and the former. Sure, there's a bit of a bad patch right now with the losses, but hopefully the booming sales of the new Defender will help to right the ship back to profitability again.

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No it's not about race. It's a out management. Sadly, during the 79s BL/LR/Rover was owned by money grabbing exercisers and staffed by socialists, so things didnt go well. In the 80s, it was owned by people who didnt get it into their heads that the motor industry, especially Japan and Germany, was leaving them in the dust. The 90s, the company was owned by a consortium who only wanted to sell it off bit by bit, to get the most profit they could. The new owners then did their own thing with the bits they bought. JLR has had too many owners, most of whom have not kept an eye on the far eastern market, all of whom now make cheaper, but just as good vehicles. JLRs refusal to fit smaller capacity petrol engines has hit it hard. Diesel gate has not been good. Sadly JLR have chosen their target audience, and priced out us working class Brits. Hence why Suzuki has a 2 year waiting list for Jimnys and why every other vehicle I see on the road is a Hilux or Ford Raptor.

I can't see the new Defendee selling any better than the rest of their range, in fact I think they are just giving more choice to the same people who already own other LR models.

What I dont understand about LR of the 90s is that they had some of the largest longterm contracts it's possible to get, MOD, Police, Fire, Mountain rescue, forestry commission, utility companies, builders, the Royal Family, farmers, but they didnt see that as a big enough market? Especially when you add in the other buyers from around the world, including the police, militaries and safari industries of Africa, Asia and Eastern Europe. The old Defender, properly built and updated as needed, should have kept the market.

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I think it looks fine, although will be waiting to see one and get a seat in it before placing an order....a 110 with some choice options quickly gets well into D5 HSE territory and at that it will take some convincing to sway SWMBO. 

85ecus did make me laugh but surely it’s on par with most new vehicles? Times change as do technologies. My 200 needs 1 power supply to keep it running but would I like the 200 in a new car? Of course not as it’s “of it’s time”, Fords lowest spec eco boost 3 pot has almost the same power.

There will always be rose tinted nostalgia over the original defender...most of us on here have comprehensively rebuilt/replaced/restored and upgraded the factory built foibles that Solihull fitted them with and as such have created our own version that we have a worrying mechanical intimacy with so I can see it from both sides. This won’t stop me from buying the new one though  (that’s the wife’s job 😋)

 

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Hi Naks, I don't think there are any good independent LR servicing places in the Western Cape.  My next door neighbour had a TD5 90 (shame) and had a problem with the gearbox when on holiday there.  When she got back she complained of juddering when on lock.  Guess what?  Well, I did.  The diff lock was on.  The change mechanism had been assembled wrongly when the box was put back in.  After that she had the normal TD5 problems with the injectors etc and flogged it. 

Oh, and she had the gearbox fixed here and the bill went to the original culprits.  She did get paid after threatening court action. 

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I specked one up on their ‘build your own’

stopped At £101k !!!!

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It was too late arriving on the market, though it has all the features [airbags, decent intelligent ABS/traction-control, proper structural rigidity/crash-survivability, NVH-suppression, aircon-that-actually-works, heated seats/mirrors, reversing cameras] you'd expect to find as standard in a 21st-century car.

But too-late-to-market.

I'm replacing my 2001 90TD5 CSW with a Toyota Landcruiser!

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At least by the time the Landcruiser is due for a change you could buy a new defender without the flaming torch and pitchforks being waved  for committing vehicular blasphemy😋 

I’ll be having a trip to the stealer for a little chat...

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On 9/11/2019 at 2:55 PM, Naks said:

the LT230 is generally good, but has a tendency to self-destruct under certain circumstances.

it's more the rest of the car I was referring to: rubbish build quality, not surprising seeing that it was British hand-built.

Brand new Puma in 2010 had a bent axle, for which I had to fight LR to get a replacement. Gearbox replaced after a year or so, ditto for rear diff. It's had a few clutches replaced, can't even remember if it was 3 or 4 times. 

For the past 2 years it's developed a drivetrain vibration that keeps loosening the prop bolts, and two of the best indies in CT haven't been able to sort it out, so haven't been able to use it for that time.

so yeah, British hand-built? no thank you.

 

btw, the new one has a low crawl ratio of 51.5:1 for diesel versions and 57.2:1 for the six-cylinder petrol.

Most of your (admittedly major) problems appear to have been caused by South African traders.  I’d wager the bent axle was caused by them or the shipping port staff driving it into something or dropping it off a hoist or ramp.

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My 110 was made in South Africa with a locally produced chassis. 

I'd been wondering why the car leant to one side, even after fitting new springs - when I got the tape measure out I discovered they had built the chassis with one front outrigger an inch and a half lower than the other side!  

Good to know carp build quality affects Land Rovers universally,  and as a plus it takes left hand bends beautifully 😆

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My 110 was also built in SA.  It is better than the imported or locally assembled ones as it has a galvanised chassis, much much better soundproofing and it even had a rev counter as standard, not that one needs a rev counter with a 300tdi.  And the rear seat is lowered and set back a bit which makes it more comfortable for rear seat passengers.   An interesting point is that the made in UK 300tdi engine is a 'Defender' engine - the air filter bracket is Defender and it never had EGR.  But it has a Disco engine number - 16L where a Defender should be 21L if I remember rightly.  It has an AADD vin no and was made in the Cape.  I haven't come across one with a later serial no so maybe it was the last one made.  It was first registered in late 1995 and I bought it in Feb 1996.   I have just overhauled the engine and there is 341k kilos on the clock.  Most of the parts are original except two water pumps and a fuel pump.  Plus the normal brake disks and pads etc. 

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Yours must have one of the last Hi-Lines then?  Same as mine but I have an earlier 200tdi - also has a galvanised bulkhead and most of the steel items, even the shock turrets.  Lovely spec on the car, you wonder why they didn't make a similar model for the UK??  

Edited by Eightpot
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Well I’ve looked at the new Defender and I’ve read some of the info out there and I quite like it :ph34r: . It sounds like a lot of thought has gone into it, probably too much but there’s still a lot of other questions I have about it and unless I win the lottery I wouldn’t be able to buy one until it’s a good few years old and even then would I be able to afford to repair it if I had a mishap when off-roading  , but I feel that JLR have made a mistake in that they’ve made another new model to compete with the same target audience they already have surely it would have made more sense to cut down on the amount of electrical gimmicks that are not necessary and produce a car at the price point the same as the old freelander so you make your target audience larger rather than the small niche market that uses cars more of a fashion statement rather than practicality. I may be wrong but I just can’t see the point if you’re a company of targeting 5% of the population when you can target 50% just doesn’t make sense to me, but perhaps that’s why I’m a welder and not a high flying boss .

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I bought my current Defender ‘new’ as an ex demonstrator from a main dealer 10 yrs ago. It cost me £20000. We also have an Isuzu Denver which we paid more or less the same money.....it belongs to She Who Must be Obeyed........and she absolutely loves it!!

So where are the marketing kiddies at Land Rover getting their retail price of over £40k? I have had a Defender for longer than I care to remember and the last one is probably the best one.......I mean a heater that actually works......total luxury 😂

I admit the market has changed......but I certainly won’t be adding my name to the waiting list of prospective new owners.....I can by a fantastic low mileage ‘proper’ Defender for £40k.....be the envy of most people I meet and make a statement as to my official title of Grumpy Old Man. 

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