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maxamillion

Like a rocket. If you are 99 years old!

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Alright. Me and Chula had their first ride together today. It was 11:46 when I finally turned the key and hit the throttle for the first time. It went right up my spine and got lost somewhere between my ears in this grayish pudding. But I suddenly realized how bright the world actually was. How all these different outside colors made me smile. How her vibrations made me think back to the days when I was 27 years old. Just by turning the key and hearing and surely feeling her rumble made me growl. Lucky me the windows were up. And nobody was able to hear me. 

Once driving her out of the garage on to the road, I had my first encounter with reality. It didn't take away my smile, or the butterflies, but it made me wonder. I'll come back to that later (as a question). The second surprise made itself visible and feelable (I don't know if that is a word at all. It's like being able to feel. Feelable, noticeable) when I approached this Porsche Cayenne standing still at a stoplight. Hitting the brakes and then somehow wondering if Chula would come to a stop, hopefully this week. And that is question number two.

So let's start with the first one. 

Chula is a 2500 DL, (2495 cc, for those who think I exaggerated a bit to much.), but she has only something like 50 HP. (????!!!????) Man, let me tell you. This has to change. Not much. But just so that when I hit her throttle she moves in a more faster way forward. Look, I'm fifty eight years old. She's only 28. When I tickle her, she should be able to make my head spin for a week. I don't want to have the impression of sitting on a couch watching a boring movie. I want to feel like Hugh Hefner in his heydays whenever I kick Chula's throttle. And don't tell me to buy another car because this will not happen! I just want a little more "Umpff". German say for, '..zi wippid cream on zi cake ven I hit zi trottelino!) Or was it schtrumpf? No, that means sock. 

So, what do I do with her? How do I get some more HP?

The second question is easy asked. Can't I put disc-brakes in the back without having to change the hole axle? And again, no, I will not buy another car. 

Well, I wish you all a fine evening. And thanks for reading.

Max out..

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That would appear to be a 2.5 normally aspirated rover diesel (2.5N/A) , not so many more ponies beyond 50hp when new , I'm sure someone will have the figure to hand , but they are not fast at all , 55mph or so . Many people upgrade to a 200 or 300 Tdi , pretty much a nut and bolt conversion , Worth checking the ratio label on the transfer box or if missing , the serial number which can be decoded  at www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk . It could be a 1.6 : 1 .

Drum braked rear axle works fine if working ok , by the sound of it the whole system needs a close look over , starting with the servo and vac. pump

cheers

Steve b

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my workshop manual shows 

max power at 4000 rpm is 50 kW [67HP] & max torque at 1800 rpm is 155Nm [114 lbft]

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If you must keep that engine. Some countries don't let you swap engines. You can do three things. First, rebuild the engine, make sure it is 100%. Second, adjust the fuel by rotating the fuel pump, this will give you a small increase in power, and I mean small. Thirdly, get a Turners Performance cylinder head. This could give you upto 10bhp. The British Army Land Rover rally team used to do these things and there was a slight improvement. However, it is not cheap, engine rebuild £1500ish. Gearbox/Transfer box rebuild £1000ish. Performance head, £700ish.

Brakes can also be upgraded with the usual kits you can get from most LR parts companies.

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Key point is that even with rear drum brakes it should stop very well - no need to ‘upgrade’. It’s likely that the calipers, pads, discs and fluid are tired and would benefit from attention. Rear discs are still a good upgrade though, purely from a maintenance point of view though as they won’t add performance.

The engines are woefully underpowered by modern standards, as above.

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If you want it to be exciting:

IMG_2989.JPG

 

But that depends on the laws in your country - @Escape and @elbekko are probably the guys you should ask although they may be a bad influence ;)

The 2.5NA is a very solid lump and (in good condition and driven by Tonk) capable of pushing a standard Defender along the road and keeping up with traffic, although you won't win any races. It's possible a basic but thorough service would do it good, certainly it's worth a try before doing anything more drastic.

A 200TDi or 300TDi is a fairly easy (if boringly predictable) conversion if you can find a good one but I'd never accuse one of being exciting.

As for the rear brakes - you can convert to discs fairly easily, it's been covered here before, BUT again in standard form the standard setup should stop very well - our 127 has drums on the back and stops fine, and that weighs 3 tonnes.

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Or yet more excitement :

With the 2.5 and its 67 hp, small things can make a big difference - check the brakes don't drag, inflate the tyres (don't put huge tyres on it)  make sure the handbrake fully retracts.  Carrying weight doesn't seem to make much difference, but not carrying round unnecessary heavy items won't hurt.

Getting the diesel injection timing just right makes a big difference with these, and can transform the engine,  but the engine also needs to be in good condition with good compression.   Worth changing the timing belt if it hasn't been done recently and taking time to accurately set the timing. 

20190912_135718.jpg

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Max, hadn't noticed you're also from bhellgium. Unfortunately, that means you're very limited to what can legally be changed on your car. Unless you want to go through a helluva lot of red tape... So no disc brakes and no engine swap. Although a 200 or 300Tdi would probably pass scrutiny.

As said above, a good service to make sure everything is at least up to spec should be first on your list. If you're not too far away, you're always welcome to come to our Workshop near Leuven for a chat and to have a look at Chulla.

Greetz,

Filip

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Back when 200tdi first came out, the factory offered upgrade kits for early engines, so could be argued it's a manufacturer replacement part rather than an engine modification maybe..

I really don't mind the 2.5d though, they have a charm of thier own and nice low down torque. 

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Years ago I owned a 90" with a 2,5 n/a like yours.

I learned early on that n/a stands for "No Acceleration". Thats just the way it is.

However there are a few things you can do to make sure all the horses are indeed present and pulling their weight. With so few in total you do not want to be missing any:

  • Get the injectors refurbished by a reputeable diesel specialist. This is supposed to be done at a fixed interval. If prior owners have neglected to have this done, you might see a dramatic change for the better.
  • Make sure the air inlet is free of obstructions, which basically means put in a fresh airfilter insert and make sure the air inlet hose if fitted does not collapse under load and restrict airflow into the engine.
  • Measure the engine compression. If its low in one or more cylinders some degree of rebuild will do wonders.
  • Consider tires with a lower circumference. That will lover the overall gearing and thereby help acceleration at the cost of some offroad performance.

Regarding the brakes: Get them fixed. The standard brakes are perfectly fine if in good order.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by tychoS
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8 hours ago, Escape said:

Max, hadn't noticed you're also from bhellgium. Unfortunately, that means you're very limited to what can legally be changed on your car. Unless you want to go through a helluva lot of red tape... So no disc brakes and no engine swap. Although a 200 or 300Tdi would probably pass scrutiny.

As said above, a good service to make sure everything is at least up to spec should be first on your list. If you're not too far away, you're always welcome to come to our Workshop near Leuven for a chat and to have a look at Chulla.

Greetz,

Filip

Well, well. Her you go. I will surely come and have a look as soon as Chula is legally street worthy. 

Yeah, I know this country is the anus of hell when it comes to changing anything out of the ordinary. And some other things. I just got back from South Africa where there are like 'No Rules' at all regarding car regulations. Any I'll see you soon, Filip.

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4 hours ago, Eightpot said:

Back when 200tdi first came out, the factory offered upgrade kits for early engines, so could be argued it's a manufacturer replacement part rather than an engine modification maybe..

I really don't mind the 2.5d though, they have a charm of thier own and nice low down torque. 

You, know... I kinda agree with you. In a way it's actually kind of relaxing with less HP. 'Take your time and you'll get there eventually.' is the new me. it's the journey, not the... 

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5 hours ago, Eightpot said:

Back when 200tdi first came out, the factory offered upgrade kits for early engines, so could be argued it's a manufacturer replacement part rather than an engine modification maybe..

I really don't mind the 2.5d though, they have a charm of their own and nice low down torque. 

My 1989 110CSW was a TD when new, I bought it when it was 4 years old & had a 200tdi repower kit fitted in mid 1994, If you decide to go that way I can send you a copy of the fitting info which may help the authorities decide to allow the change

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I think with any vehicle new to you (type rather than the specific vehicle), it’s generally worth going through it and making sure everything is working how it was designed to before you think about alterations.  Land Rover (and probably by extension Santana) steering and brakes have a reputation for being weak, woolly, vague and ineffective, but that is always a sign of neglect - they are pretty good if maintained properly.

Performance from that engine is never going to be swift, but it should keep up with traffic until you get significant hills or strong head winds on motorways.  The advantage of those engines is that they’re very robust and relatively easy to maintain.  You need to go through and check the timing (new belt would be advisable as they need regular replacement), valve tapper clearances, oil and filters, and then at the least put a good fuel injector cleaner into half a tank of fuel and run it quite hard until low on fuel (do not refuel until quite late so the cleaner isn’t too dilute).  There is a fair chance the injectors need rebuilding or replacing, though, especially if it smokes.

All that repair work is far cheaper, easier and safer than modification until you really know what you’re doing, but it sounds like you have little choice in Belgium anyway.

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On 9/13/2019 at 8:30 PM, western said:

My 1989 110CSW was a TD when new, I bought it when it was 4 years old & had a 200tdi repower kit fitted in mid 1994, If you decide to go that way I can send you a copy of the fitting info which may help the authorities decide to allow the change

Hey, Thanks. Much appreciated. Bu let me ask you this first. Is it complicated. The work that need to be done?

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Just a straight engine change, the 200tdi fits the existing gearbox,clutch, engine mounts, the kt came with a new radiator, air filter & all the other parts required. 

 

the fitting info is on a download link in y reply in this thread 

 

 

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I think it would be best to do as Snagger suggests and get everything in full working order, live with it for a year then ask yourself if you still want to go ahead with an engine swap. It will also give you time to figure what is possible with your budget and skill set. 

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15 hours ago, monkie said:

I think it would be best to do as Snagger suggests and get everything in full working order, live with it for a year then ask yourself if you still want to go ahead with an engine swap. It will also give you time to figure what is possible with your budget and skill set. 

^ This, the 2.5NA may not be exciting but it should be usable, and I'd suggest driving a 200TDi Defender (if you can find one) to see if that's what you want - they're better than the NA but never going to set the world on fire, would be a shame to go to a lot of effort and end up with something that's still disappointing.

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Not to mention the increase in noise of course!

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I never understand the level of 200tdi hate on here from a select few. Its a good engine. The thing that holds it back in my opinion is gearing. Get an overdrive and it is much more versatile than with the standard gearing. Mine will trundle along at 80 quite happily with the overdrive engaged. It isn't slow and it will chug along all day quite happily and return reasonable economy for what it is driving around - 23-25mpg in mine (many report nearer to 30mpg). Stick veg oil in it at half the price of diesel and its the equivalent cost of 46-50mpg.

Edited by reb78

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Does rather beg the question of what was expected from this Santana and of course why it wasn't test driven prior to purchase.

Mo

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1 hour ago, reb78 said:

I never understand the level of 200tdi hate on here from a select few. Its a good engine. The thing that holds it back in my opinion is gearing. Get an overdrive and it is much more versatile than with the standard gearing. Mine will trundle along at 80 quite happily with the overdrive engaged. It isn't slow and it will chug along all day quite happily and return reasonable economy for what it is driving around - 23-25mpg in mine (many report nearer to 30mpg). Stick veg oil in it at half the price of diesel and its the equivalent cost of 46-50mpg.

I think the 200tdi is awesome, especially the Disco 200tdi. Mine is smooth and punchy. Could do with a VNT turbo and a Disco 2 transfer box. But I love it. Once I've sorted the sound proofing it will cruise all day on the motorway. I'm getting 26mpg on average. I rate it as highly as a 300tdi.

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Love my 200Tdi, rebuilt by me at over 370,000 miles, its now working very well & after a throttle cable adjustment a week ago, it will crack 85, but is much happier at 60/70mph.

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I don't hate it, quite the contrary, but in a series with zero sound proofing it is a deafening clatter whatever way you look at it.

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