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maxamillion

Like a rocket. If you are 99 years old!

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I used to rally a vehicle with only 67bhp from factory and a tadge less torque. I squeezed that up to 80+

Tuning NA Diesels is easy. More fuel, more air, more exhaust

I would suggest the following:

Get it back to as close to OE factory spec as possible, so a proper service, including cam belt. Then set the timing to the factory marks

Re-condition the injectors

Fit the mil spec oil catch system

I would whip the head off and have it trued, then fit a new head gasket, whilst it's off , get the ports blue printed to the exhaust and inlet gaskets and get the valve seats re-cut

New water pump

Flush the water jacket and rad

Tuning:

One of the very few times a 'sports' air filter is any use to man or beast, also the same for a cold air induction system

The inlet manifold is restricted to hell and back so open it up to match the gaskets, but don't polish the insides as you need a bit of swirl

The exhaust manifold requires the same treatment

The exhaust is restrictive, so with a bit of careful engineering, adapt a 200Tdi exhaust to fit (2.25" dia) or get a decent 2.5" exhaust made form scratch (and lose the centre box)

The pump is a LUCAS CAV rotary pump, so easy to advance or retard. Max advance will achieve 80mph on a flat road, with a 1.44:1 T box, but the amount of smoke produced is ridiculous. However the engine is 'Nails Hard so unlikely to go bang

Get the gearing right

Lose as much weight as possible from the vehicle

Remember a slow vehicle, driven fast is more fun than a fast vehicle driven fast. Once you are used to the handling, grip is actually very good and so is CoG, so keep your momentum up!

It's never going to be a sports car but it will be a hoot

 

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14 hours ago, reb78 said:

I didnt really mean you Bowie. 🙂

Did you mean me? Because I don't hate the TDi (although the fanbois are a bit over-zealous) - the OP said he wanted "exciting" and no matter how you slice it, 110hp in a 2-ton car is not very exciting.

I've driven enough TDi's to know what they're like, both my trucks have 4.6 V8's in them, and I've driven Mouse which had 400+hp and weighed about as much as a 90... I can tell you which are more exciting than the others ;)

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It surely can't be me as I'm stuck in the 1980s with the 19J 2.5DT. The 200Tdi hasn't been invented yet in my world, it would give me an attack of the vapours! 

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20 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Did you mean me? Because I don't hate the TDi (although the fanbois are a bit over-zealous) - the OP said he wanted "exciting" and no matter how you slice it, 110hp in a 2-ton car is not very exciting.

I've driven enough TDi's to know what they're like, both my trucks have 4.6 V8's in them, and I've driven Mouse which had 400+hp and weighed about as much as a 90... I can tell you which are more exciting than the others ;)

You regularly sound pretty down on them. For folks who are novice with the spanners and electrics (not making a judgement on the OP,  more myself when I converted from the TD)  a 200tdi makes for an easy and quick improvement. A few tweaks and they are not as slow as you make them sound......

Anyway, have a 3.9 to play with now, but that's going in an off roader on a Range Rover chassis that I bought from V8 Freak.

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1 hour ago, reb78 said:

You regularly sound pretty down on them.

Only because there's enough folks here who paint them as the panacea for all and that's just not the case - they're good engines and an easy conversion, but they're not perfect and they're pretty old now. Not as slow as I make them sound? Sure a TDi Defender can keep up with traffic and tow nicely enough, but they don't exactly enjoy a surplus of power.

Also not so much the case here, but I see people encouraging others to rip NA lumps out of original Series or early Defenders and drop TDi's in, almost without thinking, which in a lot of cases is ruining an original truck that's never going to do enough miles to have been worth it. The old 2.25 / 2.5 lumps (petrol & diesel) are very good engines in themselves and (in good nick) are a decent power unit for a classic that's going to chunter along the country lanes in the sunshine.

Anyway, I'm not trying to start a holy war here, just picking up OP's comment that he wanted a bit of excitement, and going from 68hp to ~110hp is not a big leap in excitement in everyone's book.

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55 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Only because there's enough folks here who paint them as the panacea for all and that's just not the case - they're good engines and an easy conversion, but they're not perfect and they're pretty old now. Not as slow as I make them sound? Sure a TDi Defender can keep up with traffic and tow nicely enough, but they don't exactly enjoy a surplus of power.

Also not so much the case here, but I see people encouraging others to rip NA lumps out of original Series or early Defenders and drop TDi's in, almost without thinking, which in a lot of cases is ruining an original truck that's never going to do enough miles to have been worth it. The old 2.25 / 2.5 lumps (petrol & diesel) are very good engines in themselves and (in good nick) are a decent power unit for a classic that's going to chunter along the country lanes in the sunshine.

Anyway, I'm not trying to start a holy war here, just picking up OP's comment that he wanted a bit of excitement, and going from 68hp to ~110hp is not a big leap in excitement in everyone's book.

As strange as it might sound. I've always wanted a 2.5 Petrol. I'm not even sure why, I just do. I know they are tuneable, and can be modernised with fuel injection. But then I keep day dreaming about a 3.5 V8 efi removed from a Disco 1. Again, don't ask me why only 3.5, I guess it's because the Defender came with a 3.5. Since I don't do any towing, and no serious off roading, a petrol would be fine for me. I really like my 200tdi, but as everyone says, by gods is it loud.

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do the rules in your country allow you to bolt a turbo to the 2.5na? relatively cheap easy job and a big power hike

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12 hours ago, qwakers said:

do the rules in your country allow you to bolt a turbo to the 2.5na? relatively cheap easy job and a big power hike

To be honest, I have no idea. Regulations in Belgium are not always straight clear lines in a book.

Let me give you an example of what we have to deal with over here. You are most certainly allowed to bolt a Turbo to you engine. But you are only allowed to use it whilst driving backwards. 

...Policeman on the highway.

Cop. '..and what the hell do you think you are doing, driving backwards on the highway, sir?'.

Me. 'Well, I installed a turbo to my engine yesterday. And by regulation I am obl...'

Cop. 'O, I see! Well, of you go, sir. Cary on then!' 

 

A Turbo... sounds nice. But I will probably not like the sound of the bill for the makeover. Is there already topic about this kind of transformation to a 2.5DL Natural Aspiration?

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15 minutes ago, maxamillion said:

To be honest, I have no idea. Regulations in Belgium are not always straight clear lines in a book.

Let me give you an example of what we have to deal with over here. You are most certainly allowed to bolt a Turbo to you engine. But you are only allowed to use it whilst driving backwards. 

...Policeman on the highway.

Cop. '..and what the hell do you think you are doing, driving backwards on the highway, sir?'.

Me. 'Well, I installed a turbo to my engine yesterday. And by regulation I am obl...'

Cop. 'O, I see! Well, of you go, sir. Cary on then!' 

 

A Turbo... sounds nice. But I will probably not like the sound of the bill for the makeover. Is there already topic about this kind of transformation to a 2.5DL Natural Aspiration?

Don't bolt a turbo to an N/A diesel. There is a reason why when Land Rover did it, they had to do some significant upgrades. If you want a 19j, which is the TD engine, I have one sat in the garage. But it's in the UK.

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It's not a big power hike either and it comes with all sorts of issues - See TD. A good TD is a lovely engine, but a lovely engine with only another 21bhp

 

 

 

 

 

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Sell the Santana, go and research what would make you happy to drive, find one, test drive it to see if it goes well enough for you, buy it or move on to the next.

 

Because you really won't get that much more from a 2.5NA diesel engine.

Mo

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I drove one of the Sanatanas that had the Mercedes Sprinter turbodiesel, that went really well an I wonder if it would be possible / easier under Belgian regs to fit that as it's type-approved.

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Interesting idea

Type Approval for Santana and Iveco would open up a nice little selection of engines - the 2.5 and 2.8 Iveco IL4 DT's, the Fiat Chrysler 3.0litre multijet....

Fridge - which engine was that?  The OM602 wasn't used in the Massive/PS10 and neither was the OM642

 

Edited by Nonimouse
spelling!

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31 minutes ago, Nonimouse said:

Interesting idea

Type Approval for Santana and Iveco would open up a nice little selection of engines - the 2.5 and 2.6 Iveco IL4 DT's, the Fiat Chrysler 3.0litre multijet....

Fridge - which engine was that?  The OM602 wasn't used in the Massive/PS10 and neither was the OM642

 

Lord knows, it was (cough) years ago, it was the PS10 I think, and now you say it it may well be the Iveco engine - my brain obviously filed it under "engine from van" :ph34r:.

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On 9/16/2019 at 9:08 PM, qwakers said:

do the rules in your country allow you to bolt a turbo to the 2.5na? relatively cheap easy job and a big power hike

Yes, but only if Santana will provide an official document to sanction the upgrade...

On the plus side, little chance of anyone noticing. Same with the 200tdi. As long as you don't intall a V8, they wont be able to tell the difference.

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LRSA made a Defender with a 2.8 BMW six installed.  To get the revs up it had the old diesel transfer box ratios fitted.  1.44 I think.  Very fast and didn't use fuel like the V8s.  Rare even here as they made only a few for a short period.  Some were exported to the UK. 

According to NAAMSA only 1395 were made from 1997 to 2002 though only 76 in the last two years. 

Edited by JimAttrill
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1 hour ago, JimAttrill said:

LRSA made a Defender with a 2.8 BMW six installed.  To get the revs up it had the old diesel transfer box ratios fitted.  1.44 I think.  Very fast and didn't use fuel like the V8s.  Rare even here as they made only a few for a short period.  Some were exported to the UK. 

According to NAAMSA only 1395 were made from 1997 to 2002 though only 76 in the last two years. 

I've got one of those 2.8s here- it uses the 1.6:1 transfer box which seems very strange on paper but works well in practice as it needs to rev out to 6000 rpm.

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Yes, the transfer box gears were the same as in the old 2.5 n/a diesel as the Beemer needed to rev.  Apparently the 2.8 is worth money now - they are here as are all non-TD5 Defenders and Discos.  Tdi's and others sell at a premium and Td5's at a discount.  People always want to fit Tdi engines to TD5s but then they need the Tdi bellhousing which is like rocking horse poo!

Tdi engines are easily available from a guy who imports used Tds's from the UK.  Mostly out of MOT failed rusty Discos I think.  I got one for a mate whose Tdi had a broken con-rod.  I think the con-rod bolt failed first but it was hard to tell from the remains.  There were a few usable bits - the front housing is now on my 1995 Tdi which had problems with a warped housing causing belt wear more than normal.  Anyway he had lent his Defender to a friend when this happened.  Personally I never let anyone else drive my Defender.  I think it was overrevved badly which caused the failure. 

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All is fine with her. Been away for a while. Thanks for asking. How are you doing these days?

IMG_0162.thumb.JPG.ca2c3e0761bcabc10b885108bbc29a4d.JPGI need some welding to be done on my chassi. I have this crack on the front chassi. And need this to be fixed before I'll go for the MOT. But still waiting on some paperwork. 

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Another fellow Belgian :)

Max, what's the transferbox's ratio? Should be listed on the sticker attached to the transfer box, 1.4 or 1.6? If the sticker is gone, the serial number can help. I've had a 2.5TD (the successor of your 2.5N/A, with a turbo) and a gearbox with 1.6 ratio giving it a low top speed, but a 'fast' acceleration. Mating it with a 1.4 transfer box, gives it a higher top speed but less acceleration. 

I've swapped the engine to a 200TDI because my 2.5TD engine did not have power steering and buying these parts separate would be costing me more then a full 200tdi disco engine :) Because my original 2.5TD had a turbo, I did not had to change anything on the legal side but I wouldn't be to worried.. The MOT in this country is a joke, they didn't even 'popped the hood', they just don't care.

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