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Bowie69

Thoughts and musings on the Ineos Grenadier

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34 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

I don't understand?

No yellow paint, high profile tyres? Knobbly tyres?

Long travel springs?

Is that a live axle? Lap times will be dreadful!

Seriously though, looks interesting.

That track bar, is it a bit low?

I think that’s the back axle, with a rear mounted winch high up.  I can’t see any signs of swivels on that axle, or engine sump near it, but there appears to be a black diagonal drag link at the far end of the vehicle.  The lower bar does appear to be vulnerable, and I have no idea what all those bars are for on a live beam rear axle unless it also har rear wheel steering for low speed manoeuvring, which would be superb.  Perhaps they, and many of the orange bits, are test related, for measuring dynamic loads and movements of the prototypes.

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Interesting. A shame the Landrover offering has a a year of time ahead. It would great if they were tied on time to market, so there will be a clear comparison.

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The video includes chassis testing mules - I would guess that at this time there’s will still be a lot up in the air and that they will be testing all sorts of configurations of various kit.

It does look promising though.

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2 hours ago, Snagger said:

I think that’s the back axle, with a rear mounted winch high up.  I can’t see any signs of swivels on that axle, or engine sump near it, but there appears to be a black diagonal drag link at the far end of the vehicle.  The lower bar does appear to be vulnerable, and I have no idea what all those bars are for on a live beam rear axle unless it also har rear wheel steering for low speed manoeuvring, which would be superb.  Perhaps they, and many of the orange bits, are test related, for measuring dynamic loads and movements of the prototypes.

Swivels, panhard rod & draglink are all there, that's the front

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On 9/22/2019 at 5:33 PM, geoffbeaumont said:

Looks - from what you can see - rather like an older Land Cruiser.

That's probably not a bad template. The older live axle Bruisers were built like a tank.

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In one of the articles, I noticed they were developing easy to use diagnostics software that will be run from inside the truck, on a touch panel I guess.

The right to repair chaps in the states will be happy, if they get sold there - gotta be the first time in the last decade that any manufacturer wasn't trying to screw its customers with service charges for something that just turns a light out....

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I am slightly disappointed that they are auto only but I guess that means there will be a new industry born for someone to retrofit a manual gearbox :)

Can't wait to see one 😀

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Certainly simplifies things, no need for a transmission tunnel with a big stick getting in the way of any potential middle seat passenger.

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I suspect a lack of manual boxes is the reason :( Even the Morgan Plus is automatic only these days. And that is a car it should be an insult to have an auto in.

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If the yanks get it, they'd soon be swapping a T66 or similar for sure.

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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 11:04 PM, Bowie69 said:

In one of the articles, I noticed they were developing easy to use diagnostics software that will be run from inside the truck, on a touch panel I guess.

The right to repair chaps in the states will be happy, if they get sold there - gotta be the first time in the last decade that any manufacturer wasn't trying to screw its customers with service charges for something that just turns a light out....

lots of tractors and trucks like this and about time the car market did the same

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Defender said:

I am slightly disappointed that they are auto only but I guess that means there will be a new industry born for someone to retrofit a manual gearbox :)

Can't wait to see one 😀

No.  It is 8 speed manual.  They say industry leading 8 speed gearbox and then show someone shifting.  The videos of them driving also show all manual gear changes.

Edited by Red90

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I would be surprised at an 8 speed manual. Car drivers won't want an 8 speed over under or slapper box like trucks have, unless they have a 6 speed with a slap left to get the 2 lows like the old unimogs rather than a full low box. 

An 8 speed auto I can see quote possible, there's a ZF box which goes into lots of makes with different blocks, the ration etc can be adapted to suit too. Seems an economic way forwards. 

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19 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

Apparently you are right.  I confirmed with them.  Sad.  It means the whole thing will be complicated and expensive, the opposite of what they should be trying to create.  That is what happens when you involve German engineers.  Somehow it is ingrained into their whole society.

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1 hour ago, Cynic-al said:

I would be surprised at an 8 speed manual. Car drivers won't want an 8 speed over under or slapper box like trucks have, unless they have a 6 speed with a slap left to get the 2 lows like the old unimogs rather than a full low box. 

An 8 speed auto I can see quote possible, there's a ZF box which goes into lots of makes with different blocks, the ration etc can be adapted to suit too. Seems an economic way forwards. 

That is what I had hoped.  6 gear for on road and the other two off road only.

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3 minutes ago, Red90 said:

Apparently you are right.  I confirmed with them.  Sad.  It means the whole thing will be complicated and expensive, the opposite of what they should be trying to create.  That is what happens when you involve German engineers.  Somehow it is ingrained into their whole society.

Unfortunately the gearbox is part of the strategy to get good emissions out of the modern engines with a narrow torque band.

I think making things complicated is the only way the motor industry has survived - it adds perceived value to the end product.

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3 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Unfortunately the gearbox is part of the strategy to get good emissions out of the modern engines with a narrow torque band.

I think making things complicated is the only way the motor industry has survived - it adds perceived value to the end product.

Oh BS.  There are lots of cars made with autos and manuals and there is no difference in emissions.  Complicated is the wrong choice for THIS vehicle.

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No, it is true.

 

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24 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

No, it is true.

 

No.  It is not.  Like I said, there are MANY vehicles with both manual and automatic options.  Fuel consumption and emissions are the same as long as final gearing is the same.  Don't drink the Kool-Aid.

I work daily with German engineers.  They run a good line.  Don't fall for it.  

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In the hands of a good driver a manual is more economical and more environmentally friendly than an automatic. The driver is the problem, there were tests done when autos were becoming more popular in lorries. All the test drivers could better the mpg of an auto with a manual but roll them out over a fleet with average drivers and average use and the autos won hands down. Which is the operator paying the fuel bill going to go for? 

Most car drivers are not car enthusiasts and most car makers are making for the masses. They want easy, economical, affordable, practical. Oh and probably to connect their Twitter account. 

Have you ever driven the manuals with the up and down arrows on the dash suggesting when you should change. Our work vans have them and they often tell me to change up when I dont because I know in 300 yards I'm going to need to either speed up or slow down. The auto will change up then change down again in 300 yards. 

Also manufacturers are downsizing engines for economy and winding them up to death with turbos or superchargers.  The effect seems to be no low down torque as it's a small engine and the compressors aren't giving much, then lots of power over a very narrow band. To make it drive able you need lots of gears to keep it in either the power or economy band. My car is an 8 speed auto and when I pull out my road end into a 30mph it will go through every gear to 6th or sometimes 7th. A manual driver will not do that. There are 10 speed gearboxes now, a manual driver will not use that properly. 

The worst one I've ever driven for this was the 2.3 navara, awful to drive as a 6 speed manual.

Do I like automatic? No. Do I like small wound up engines? I would rather drive an electric, I'm just waiting for a practical energy source. The car manufacturers are trying to keep the old technology going until that comes along. 

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Thank you @Cynic-al

 That was exactly what I wanted to write but I really couldn't be bothered, I'm sure you understand why.

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18th of Sept their CEO said:

'The gearbox will be automatic, though it might be available with a low-range manual - at the moment, it's too early to confirm.' 

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3 hours ago, Anderzander said:

18th of Sept their CEO said:

'The gearbox will be automatic, though it might be available with a low-range manual - at the moment, it's too early to confirm.' 

I asked them directly and they said automatic only.

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