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Bowie69

Thoughts and musings on the Ineos Grenadier

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7 hours ago, Red90 said:

I asked them directly and they said automatic only.

That’s a shame - I love changing gear ⚙️ 

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Reading a bit more on this, it appears that regulation has quite a bearing.

When doing the emissions testing for certification, there is quite a fee involved as you would imagine, thousands of euros/pounds/dollars or whatever.

Now, the testing has to be done for each body variant, so SWB, LWB, but also estate, pickup, chassis cab, van, hi cap, double cab pickup, and who knows what else? All we know is that the body is designed to be modular like the Defender, but I suspect more so.

You can see how the costs go up with each subtle change to the body.

Obviously you need to test for each engine variant, so with two options currently, and assuming there are, say, six body variations, that is 12 tests to do.

The crux of this is that the transmission is also included in the criteria that constitute a 'variation', so adding a second gearbox option doubles the number of certifications required.

As a start up business, and with sales of manual gearbox equipped vehicles falling under 10%, it really isn't worth it at this time.

 

Also, it is well known that the public, in general, are over changing gears, a quick google reveals a load of articles giving reasons and citing major manufacturers that have simply stopped using them at all, or in some of their lines:

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/drive/culture/article-downshift-the-death-of-the-manual-transmission/

https://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/290116/death_of_the_manual_gearbox.html

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/death-manual-gearbox

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/248786-manual-gearboxes-dead-theyre-worse-every-way-possible

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/why-is-the-manual-transmission-living-on-borrowed-time-ar182081.html

https://www.kearnymesaautorepair.com/the-death-of-the-manual-transmission/

https://motor-vision.co.uk/latest-news/manual-transmission-is-dying/

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As for the body design...they could buy from the Andalusian goverment (Santana) or iranian Moratab Pazhan the building rights for a real Land Rover body.

They could even create an offshore company in Galicia, NW Spain, in the city of Viveiro. One of it's rural neighbourhoods is called LANDROVE. Perfect name for the car!

Screenshot_20191006-121032.png

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On 10/5/2019 at 12:03 PM, Bowie69 said:

the testing has to be done for each body variant, so SWB, LWB, but also estate, pickup, chassis cab, van, hi cap, double cab pickup, and who knows what else

Again, easy to solve. Rover had just one body option back in 1948. Doors, canvas or whatever else needed to be purchased separately.

Dfender 90 NAS where going to be marketed that way, but finally were not because of the logistics involved in stocking and delivering canvas and hardtops all along USA.

https://jalopnik.com/that-time-mercedes-made-four-cars-in-one-1760123043/amp

 

Screenshot_20191006-123713.png

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Even if they were doing that, start up costs will need to be kept to a workable figure.

As for buying the body panel rights, well nice idea, but would never pass type approval today.

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In this age of small, turbo charged engines that need to be at a very specific rev range to meet emissions and efficiency standards, you can see why 8+ speed transmissions are needed, and with more than five gears, why they tend to be automatics (I loathed the 6-speed in my wife’s D90), but it is a shame the Grenadier won’t be available as a 5-speed manual with flexible engine.  All the more reason for them to try to pursue electric drive and a two speed box - it’d avoid the lethargy and lag of an automatic and give spritely performance.  It’d be great for low speed off-road torque and wading ability, too.

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Watched it earlier when I came back from work , looks good are the firm they’ve chosen for the axles any good ? I am thinking yes as they make tractor axles as I’ve never heard of one of those break .

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Excellent.

Anyone else notice the four-link + panhard setup front and rear?

Assuming the setup matches the pictures.

Good to see Mark back in the seat of a 4x4.

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31 minutes ago, ianmayco68 said:

Watched it earlier when I came back from work , looks good are the firm they’ve chosen for the axles any good ? I am thinking yes as they make tractor axles as I’ve never heard of one of those break .

Yeah Carraro have been making axles for a long time and have a very good name although it is definitely possible to break a tractor axle !

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I can believe that , I’ve seen the way some of them drive them round our way especially round silage time .

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Disappointing. No mention of the design philosophy for the appearance, no mention of the accessories, what sort of entertainment systems or the styling of the wheels.

 

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There doing it a bit at a time over 12 months, I think , next month is the suspension.

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Fantastic 😊

They aren’t messing about these guys are they ?

from engineering over design, component choice, commercial partners, and advertising and marketing - it all looks good to me.

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22 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

Disappointing. No mention of the design philosophy for the appearance, no mention of the accessories, what sort of entertainment systems or the styling of the wheels.

 

They will be following the ‘ground up’ slogan and revealing it bit by bit. It probably gives them a way of building anticipation, education, and gives them a chance to reveal things whilst they are still developing stuff too.

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Someone has been taking a few leaves out of Tesla's marketing playbook, I reckon. Fair play to them, they likely need to hit the ground running.

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23 minutes ago, Anderzander said:

They will be following the ‘ground up’ slogan and revealing it bit by bit. It probably gives them a way of building anticipation, education, and gives them a chance to reveal things whilst they are still developing stuff too.

I was kidding. Or channeling Gerry McGovern. Or both.

I really like their approach. Best chassis, first, best axles, next. Drivetrain next. And finally stick some tin on it to keep the rain out.

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Really like how they're building the suspense with the marketing campaign. Anyone else think the dig at monocoque chassis being used for SUVs rather than proper 4x4s is in reference to the latest "Defender"?

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They don’t seem keen on this video on the new Defender Facebook group:

 

9B585AA6-9771-42B6-8D85-D53862A7369D.thumb.jpeg.d283800a12d40fc0ff77109dea4856bc.jpeg

E7B32E63-445C-41D8-8162-266DEF11B44E.thumb.jpeg.2e42988bb357e05a9c7ec28872fc62b9.jpeg

 

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9 minutes ago, paime said:

Really like how they're building the suspense with the marketing campaign. Anyone else think the dig at monocoque chassis being used for SUVs rather than proper 4x4s is in reference to the latest "Defender"?

Yeah deffo 

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1 hour ago, ianmayco68 said:

I’ve never heard of one of those break .

... I can personally attest that they do, happily not often. Carraro iirc sub-contract quite a bit for Massey etc.

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2 minutes ago, Anderzander said:

They don’t seem keen on this video on the new Defender Facebook group:

 

9B585AA6-9771-42B6-8D85-D53862A7369D.thumb.jpeg.d283800a12d40fc0ff77109dea4856bc.jpeg

E7B32E63-445C-41D8-8162-266DEF11B44E.thumb.jpeg.2e42988bb357e05a9c7ec28872fc62b9.jpeg

 

New Defender Facebook group ? Is that the whole Defender press team or just one person with multiple accounts ? 

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