Jump to content
Bowie69

Thoughts and musings on the Ineos Grenadier

Recommended Posts

Full charge on a nissan leaf from complete zero capacity to 40kWh is in the region of the same energy released from dropping 3000 tons of water 5 meters...

Anyway I'm diverting the thread there. I'll dam my thoughts there. (and get my coat)

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, WesBrooks said:

Full charge on a nissan leaf from complete zero capacity to 40kWh is in the region of the same energy released from dropping 3000 tons of water 5 meters...

Anyway I'm diverting the thread there. I'll dam my thoughts there. (and get my coat)

That's what people just ignore when they worship the idea of electric vehicles.  Putting in hydro-electric dams causes massive environmental damage.  In one area where I work, I've wept to see thousands and thousands of native trees being cut down and massive earthworks done to put in wind turbines.  That, plus construction and shipping of the gear uses a huge amount of carbon-derived energy.  Sourcing and disposing of Lithium brings its own problems.  Every form of electricity generation has consequences.

When hydrogen technology is perfected and we can fuel our cars via solar panels on our roofs or something like that, then you might talk about the genuine benefits of electric vehicles.  Currently there is a lot of smoke and more than a few mirrors being waved around.  Bottom line is that ALL energy comes at a cost.  I think the big push for electric vehicles comes from people who live in cities and want their air to be cleaner without caring where the real cost is transferred to.  Come to think of it, that's long been the case with food and clothing too...

So good on these people for designing a car for today.  No doubt they have their eyes on the future though.  Maybe eyeing the likes of Rivian?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All electricity generation causes damage, but you need to look at the alternatives - coal puts out more toxic waste than nuclear for example - and would you rather have wind turbines & a solar farm or a bl**dy great power station built near your house?

There's undoubtedly problems with anything short of living in a cave, so take your pick. I reckon wind & solar are pretty low impact overall although I have a feeling nuclear still works out cleanest and safest if you run the numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

 @deep I follow what you say there. I always liked he idea of hydrogen fuel cells, but they are building a very thorough defence against that based on efficiency. Thing is an easy way to mislead is just to through shed loads of information and over whelm.
As it happens we in St Helens are in a little centre of the hydrogen production with a a few sources near here.

Anyhow without gest I fear I'm accidentally playing my normal card and diverting the topic. Feel free to chat via message. I'd like to attempt an electric light weight 4x4 after current projects.

Electric push pikes are just about the only thing that makes sense to me at the moment.

 

Edited by WesBrooks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will never get charge points in the middle of Africa, well, not this century.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bowie69 said:

You will never get charge points in the middle of Africa, well, not this century.

You might be surprised - some of these places they actually skip a generation or two of technology and get with the times very quickly. Like a lot of them never had a land-line phone or internet but everyone's got a smartphone now, or how a lot of them never had bank accounts but now they all use P2P electronic payment on their phone.

You might find that they never get mains electric but local solar/wind pops up and EV's become the first and "default" motor vehicle.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is true.  Africa is inundated with mobile phones because they need far less infrastructure than traditional land lines.  Almost everyone has one in the cities.  The same is happening with solar powered electrical micro grids - it’s only just starting, but many African communities are installing solar arrays and static battery systems as they’re cheaper than the typical grid system and far quicker to install.  Whether they’ll install enough to power vehicles remains to be seen, but most of Africa gets quite a lot of sun.  They’d need something else for the monsoon seasons, where it can be cloudy day after day, but that can be managed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 years ago I had a better mobile signal in the desert in Morrocco than I've ever had at home.

Mo

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

All electricity generation causes damage, but you need to look at the alternatives - coal puts out more toxic waste than nuclear for example - and would you rather have wind turbines & a solar farm or a bl**dy great power station built near your house?

Neither option has any appeal, though it's too late as wind turbines already dominate the skyline in this region.  If the power generation companies had any morals, the wind turbines could be okay.  They just need to leave them on farmland, stop bullying the locals and stop pretending there is no environmental cost!  Too late for that too.

The real solution is for people to understand the cost of our indulgence and just do less.  The last few weeks of "lockdown" have produced cleaner air and vastly lower demand for fuel, which proves it is possible.

Big four wheel drives, like the one being discussed here, don't obviously fit the picture of less indulgent vehicles but it's clear we are not looking at a fifty mile a day commuter - rather a working vehicle which, hopefully, transfers most of its fuel into something genuinely useful.  What a shame if it turns into yet another big, comfortable, indulgent status symbol!

Edited by deep
grammar
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I follow your logic there @deep. I'd had disagreements with senior folk at the Uni that I did my research at because they were so proud of their new building with fancy colour changing lights all over the sides of the tower. It just seemed a huge waste.

For electric I've only thought electric bikes make sense, and had thought about using stuff salvaged from leafs and the like to make an electric truck, but skipped due to the level of work that was needed. Now for people playing off road I think light is king for electric. But light ultimately looses maximum traction and motive force - and so not useful for some forms of working vehicle. Ineos may have spotted a niche, but ine size won't fit all of the use cases. There is room for others.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing new revealed.  4 link with panhard front and rear. Hopefully they beef up the bottom links. No numbers on travel, but should be easy to modify. Sway bars look easy to disconnect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shame the links are so short and have a bend in them. But I am just nitpicking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Daan said:

Shame the links are so short and have a bend in them. But I am just nitpicking.

Short?  They are longer than Jeep arms.  Looks to be around 2' long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Certainly looks like it's heading down the solid workhorse path. I wonder if they look at registering it as a light commercial rather than private car and take the speed limit on the chin.

This suspension certinally looks tough but can you make this style of suspension behave well when thrown around? Not it's target I know, but people will, and if it has and of the nasty behaviours a tall beam axle vehicle can have they will need to educate it's proapective owners or risk a few poor stories. Registered as a light commercial you'd be less likely to suffer people buying it for a status symbol as they'd soon be caught out by the lower speed limits!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WesBrooks said:

Certainly looks like it's heading down the solid workhorse path. I wonder if they look at registering it as a light commercial rather than private car and take the speed limit on the chin.

This suspension certinally looks tough but can you make this style of suspension behave well when thrown around? Not it's target I know, but people will, and if it has and of the nasty behaviours a tall beam axle vehicle can have they will need to educate it's proapective owners or risk a few poor stories. Registered as a light commercial you'd be less likely to suffer people buying it for a status symbol as they'd soon be caught out by the lower speed limits!

The speed limit wouldn’t be an issue if the unladen weight is under 2040kg as it’s then dual purpose and subject to passenger car limits. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least with IVA you have the choice open to you. I was wondering if they'd take this route in part to force home the message that this is a commercial vehicle to potential customers with the lower speed limit adding to that inforcement.

I've been framing through this video to see if the anti roll bars were present (don't think so but video isn't exactly high resolution), but it is easy to make emotive videos like this, particually if you have no antiroll bars (/disconnect), low front tyre pressures, over correct, etc...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That video was not objective.  They were on a crusade to slam 4wds and drove it in a way to ensure the roll over.  They used the suspension rebound off the first input to reinforce the the moment of the second input.  Look at the other “tests” and you can see how differently they drive the vehicles.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's known as 'doing a Branson'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After surviving his accident so unharmed, Branson bought a fleet of RRCs for his first class passengers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had a classic sideways on at higher speed than that (and not on a nice flat expanse of tarmac - switching between tarmac and grass). It was scary but it didn't roll. Not saying they don't - and there is a point to driving home to people that off road vehicles are inherently less stable at speed than a road only car, especially ones like the classic that feel very safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those are essentially the point I'm making but I'm guessing you'd have a hard time doing the same with most of the 4x4 SUVs with electric aids or independent suspension?

Anyway I've diverted the topic a bit. It isn't a road car, and they are not targeting sales reps and company car fleets. All I was really wondering was if the are going in as a commercial or not.

Final question on the handling characteristics though (it does fasinate me but not had the time to find a decent affordable book to read) is beam axles do have their own perculiar handling characteristics compaired to the run of the mill road car right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/1/2020 at 3:50 PM, WesBrooks said:

Those are essentially the point I'm making but I'm guessing you'd have a hard time doing the same with most of the 4x4 SUVs with electric aids or independent suspension?

Anyway I've diverted the topic a bit. It isn't a road car, and they are not targeting sales reps and company car fleets. All I was really wondering was if the are going in as a commercial or not.

Final question on the handling characteristics though (it does fasinate me but not had the time to find a decent affordable book to read) is beam axles do have their own perculiar handling characteristics compaired to the run of the mill road car right?

A lot of older road cars have live beam rear axles, and I think most US muscle cars still do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy