Engine Conversion - BMW M57 into a 90

[LiamC]

The transfer box adapter plate and shaft is the most expensive part of the project. There's a good chance I might go with this one: https://www.onlinegearboxparts.com/product/bmw-6-speed-n47-zf-gearbox-to-lt230-adapter-kit/ Does anyone know anything about this company? I did a bit of googling about them and found mostly positive things.

[Peaklander]

I think that Syncro Gearboxes is/are Shabs Piercy and if so, that's the guy - although I might be corrected. On the FB group you will definitely get an answer on that specific question.

[landroversforever]

Yeah that’s the chap.

I think we spoke about him when you came round Liam?

[LiamC]

13 hours ago, Peaklander said:

 if so, that's the guy 

Can you elaborate?

[Peaklander]

I only know what I have read in the FB BMW group. In there he frequently crops up or is mentioned as the source of the adapters. Also Syncro produce the Slickshift gearstick product which I believe is a widely used product.

In much the same way, Marcus Williams handles the loom and ECU challenges. As I say though, it's only what I have read.

[LiamC]

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying, when you said "the guy" I thought you meant it in a bad way. There are three sources for the specific adaptor that i need, one of which I have chosen to avoid as he has a bad rep with the Cummins crowd, the other two remaining options being Shabs at Syncro or Nick Finlay. I'm just making sure I do my research and listen to all sides before making my decision and handing over the cash.

[Peaklander]

It was written in notveryeasytoseeitalics, sounds like theeee guy. If I were a little younger maybe I would have written “he’s da man, innit”!

[LiamC]

A small update. I spent an evening this week disassembling my spare LT230 transfer box. I plan to order Ashcroft's new special 1.1:1 gearset. I have checked over all the components and as far as I can tell everything seems to be in good order. However I have never opened up one of these boxes before so I don't have anything to compare it to. I'm told that this box has covered 97k miles in a disco 1. The oil did look like it was overdue for a change but all of the bearings seem fine so I was planning to reuse them? I will change the seals though as they are relatively cheap.

If anyone has any advice on what to check while I have it apart or and tips for reassembly then please let me know. I don't have the handbrake mechanism from the disco box so I believe I will have to tap some holes in order to mount the old style defender mechanism?

I have also just discovered that I will have to switch to the 26 tooth input gear in order to use the new Ashcroft gearset, so that's another £78 to add to the ever building unplanned expense!

[FridgeFreezer]

Make sure you lose one of the little detent balls under the workbench while re-assembling, it's traditional

I wouldn't mess with the bearings if you don't have to.

[LiamC]

Finally a free weekend to work on the Landy. The transfer box is back together with the 1.1:1 gear set and the 2.5NA is out! The previous owner rebuilt this landy on a galvanised chassis about 4 or 5 years ago, all the bolts were greased which has made removing the engine and transmission a really easy job. I removed the engine, gearbox and transfer box all in one go by lifting on a overhead beam and gradually pushing the landy backwards at the same time until it came clear.

 

[WarRig]

Hi Liam, why did you opt to go manual? Just curious, I'm thinking about an auto. Would you suggest which auto would be best as I've sourced a BMW M57D engine but no transmission, alternator or starter motor for $1K here in Western Australia (still looking for these parts). I'll consider a manual transmission if I can be convinced of it's benefits. I have a RRC 1989 model that will be my project to build as a outback touring vehicle. I'm new to this BMW engine swap, so appreciate any help on the forum. Cheers

[landroversforever]

24 minutes ago, WarRig said:

Hi Liam, why did you opt to go manual? Just curious, I'm thinking about an auto. Would you suggest which auto would be best as I've sourced a BMW M57D engine but no transmission, alternator or starter motor for $1K here in Western Australia (still looking for these parts). I'll consider a manual transmission if I can be convinced of it's benefits. I have a RRC 1989 model that will be my project to build as a outback touring vehicle. I'm new to this BMW engine swap, so appreciate any help on the forum. Cheers

I'm not sure on Liams reasons, but with the autos of this era it can often mean difficulties with controlling them as they need ECUs and other sensors. I would have thought something like a compushift would solve that issue though.

[WarRig]

22 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

I'm not sure on Liams reasons, but with the autos of this era it can often mean difficulties with controlling them as they need ECUs and other sensors. I would have thought something like a compushift would solve that issue though.

Yes I take your point about the sensors and getting the ECU to talk them. Agreed a manual tranny would be easier. Yes a compushift would be a good solution and I'm sure somebody has engineered one just for this occasion, now to find said engineer 😃

[LiamC]

I just prefer a manual transmission, I know modern autos are really good and I did consider this route but I still have a slight preference for the manual.

Also, as Ross said, controlling the auto involves quite a bit of ECU work to get working properly. I have read about people using the auto box from the BMW X5 which I think is a good option but it will be expensive and complex to set up.

[Blanco]

Re the ECU  for the BMW auto box, I understand that the engine ECU handles the internally mounted mechatronic unit, so no separate ECU is required. I think I saw that on the FB group somewhere?

[V8110]

I guess that is sort of true (gearbox model depending) but the ZF6HP series of boxes found in a lot of BMWs from the late 90s to 2014 (I think) have an internal ECU for the mechatronic unit that sits inside the box itself attached directly to the mechatronic unit itself 

[LiamC]

Well today has been a bit of a disaster. I've spent the day trying to work out what is going on with the gearbox. I've played around with this box many times, selecting all the gears and counting the number of turns on the input and output shafts to check that the ratios are correct and it all worked very well and was always easy to spin by hand. Except for today when I bolted up the transfer box it was very stiff to turn even though it was in neutral. It concerned me enough to pull it off the engine and remove the transfer box to see what's going on. In neutral it feels like the input and output are connected together, however if I get one person to grab each shaft you can just about turn them independently by hand but only just. All of the gears still select but again it requires all my strength to grip the shaft tight enough to rotate it even with no load. Fifth gear is straight through (1:1) which still works fine and is free. Clearly the resistance is when trying to turn the input and output at different speeds, there appears to be some sort of drag/friction between them but why has this problem suddenly occurred? Or is it a problem at all, when the engine is running will it spin fast enough for the oil pump to run and free off whatever is sticking/dragging? These boxes are usually really reliable. Any input greatly appreciated.

[lo-fi]

That's definitely not right. Look for some kind of misalignment or tightness. Clutch splines or pilot bearing would be where I'd be looking. 

[lo-fi]

Or the clutch not aligned with the pilot, meaning the input hasn't seated properly and is getting rammed into the box. Something like that... I've had a new clutch on an M20 where the splines were so tight the input would not seat properly. It was impossible to select a gear with the engine as the friction plate was rammed so hard up against the flywheel it was like the clutch just didn't disengage. 

[LiamC]

I've actually pulled the transmission off completely so it's now stand alone. Having spent the evening learning how manual gearboxes actually work I'm pretty sure it's the 5th gear syncro ring which is not coming completely free from the 5th speed gear cone. The transmission has been sat for several months so the oil may have drained off the synros and they could be quite dry. I have also been bench shifting the box which apparently you shouldn't do if it's been sat or is dry. I wonder if it will free itself once the oil gets circulating? As I say it's not locked but there is a lot of friction. 

[Carloz]

Well... if the synchro cone comes not free by turning it by hand I can imagine it will when the engine is running. Although I think synchro cone should work free when turning by hand... But still turning by hand or by the engine are quite something different things (10revs a minute vs 750revs a minute).

Oil will be transported by the gears, also when turned by hand. You can roll the box upside down to be sure about the oiling.

[Cynic-al]

Could you just brim the box with oil to let it soak in to everything by tipping it on its side so the fill plug is at the top? If it starts working once it has a bit of oil around everything then you could leave it full like that until your ready to run it so it doesn't dry out again? 

[LiamC]

Thanks guys for the excellent suggestions. I have actually found the issue now. Because I was trying to attach the heavy transfer box single handed I put some lengths of threaded rod in the mounting holes to get it aligned. As I slid the box on it came to a halt at one point. I assumed that the one sided weight was causing it to twist and bind on the threaded rod so I wound some nuts on to push it up. I believe actually the adaptor shaft must have been binding where it wasn't square and pushed the output shaft back and into the gearbox slightly on its bearing. I have just set up a puller to test my theory and the shaft came back out just a fraction to it's "home" position and now everything is free as it should be. I shall try to fit the transfer box again but will pay more attention to making sure it is going on square this time.

[LiamC]

I got the new engine dropped in this weekend. I have got it mounted on the two rear mounts, (one on the transfer box and one on the gearbox), just need to work out some engine mounts now. Ideally I want to pick up on the existing chassis mounts so I don't have to weld to my galvanised chassis.

 

[cackshifter]

Good progress indeed!