80” series horn dip question...

[Anderzander]

 

Opinions, and thoughts welcome here folks:

It’s become apparent on my 80“ series 1 that the steering is the biggest barrier to driving at a speed that matches modern traffic. There are two companies who will rebuild the original series 1 box - but the feedback Is that in one case they wear quite quickly after repair and in the other that it really didn’t remove that much play. Mine is fine on twisty roads where you are moving lock to lock, but it’s on straight to fast roads where the play is a bit more unpredictable.

So the old trialler’s trick of fitting a later series lhd box upside down is looking more and more appealing .... the bit I can’t settle on is the horn. My 80 has a stator tube holding a horn with a dip switch on it - and it is lovely, but that would obviously not work with the later box.

I’ve a couple of choices I think:

I’ve seen someone keep the horn set up as a fake, so to speak, putting a different switch for the dip. Though I’m not sure it secures  without the stator, and I don’t want it just resting on there. I was having radical thoughts on could I fit a slip ring that could take the horn and the dip? Could I have a tiny battery and somehow make the switch a remote?

Or the obvious - use the S2 horn with a standard slip ring and relocate the dip somewhere else. For that I just (vainly) can’t seem to find a switch that looks period and fits - nor where to put it. I have seen a texmagna repurposed to do this - but they are mad money these days, and perhaps a bit big for that anyway.

Anything I’ve not thought of? Or suggestions of what I could use are very welcome.

 

[oneandtwo]

Can’t help, but the steering box was the main reason I sold my 80” - it only had 20k from new but steering was abysmal despite Very expensive rebuild of original cast iron steering box.

I have to say I don’t miss it at all!

[steve b]

Have you considered rebuilding it yourself?  Also maybe a steering damper could be mounted to the drag link as a clamp on fitment so originality can be retained .

If you do fit a later recirculating ball box the slip ring horn works well enough and keeps the early type steering wheel then have a floor mounted dip switch .

cheers

Steve b

[Bowie69]

A floor mounted dip switch is remarkably sensible when clinging onto a wheel to make sure your truck goes straight  

[FridgeFreezer]

A cheapo 2-channel remote control fob glued into the wheel and its receiver / relays discretely connected to the other end?

Might have to pop the centre to replace the batteries in the remote every few years but otherwise should work & be reversible.

 

Failing that, how about some pics/diagrams for those of us who aren't familiar with the setup you're describing?

[lo-fi]

I'm having trouble visualising it from the description, so pics definitely helpful

I've never seen a series 1 steering box either; I take it they're quite different? 

[Anderzander]

Thanks guys - I’ll get some pics !  Here though are old ones from when The rebuild was first done:

The steering box is a worm and nut arrangement, rather than the recirculating ball. They changed in about 1956 and were a huge improvement. 

Here’s the box.

Here’s the best pic I have on my phone showing the switch. I’ll take something better.

My friend fitted a later series LHD box upside down to his here:

and he kept the original horn - using the slip ring for the horn and the dip redundant:

I have a couple of ideas - run the series 2 horn and then fit either something like this for the dip:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F283529673112

Or go for an old motorbike type switch fitted on the grab rail, like this one I have:

 

I’m just a bit torn on the decision - to really use it as I want to I need better steering - which means losing the horn / dip which is one of my favourite 80” features ... but having got past that it’s just what would look as period and un-carp as possible ...

 

 

[FridgeFreezer]

S3 stalk has dip/flash and horn on it.

Still not quite seeing how this setup works

[Anderzander]

Brace yourself ....

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F293036231665

[steve b]

That part in the ebay ad is bolted to a small tube that runs through the centre of the column shaft and exits at the base of the box through the end plate with a pinch clamp holding it in place . The dip switch and horn wires run through the tube and the centre of the wheel in the cab is fixed .

I know someone that rebuilt one of these recently , I'll find out where the parts came from , it should be useable at 50mph - the move to recirculating ball was as much aimed at reducing turning force at the steering wheel off road as anything as I've always understood it .

I can see why you want to keep it , it's one of the defining 80" features .

cheers

Steve b

[Anderzander]

These guys do rebuilds of the original box and provide parts :

 

I’ve had mixed feedback on it though - the later series box is more precise, gives greater lock, and has less play.... tough to argue with all that.

[lo-fi]

That could be re-engineered to be a "split nut" design, which can eliminate backlash. It's essentially the same as a leadscrew on a machine tool. On the other hand, it may be easier to adapt the gubbins on the steering wheel to the later box/column - recirculating ball is the far better engineering solution.

The "fix" in the video is still going to give vague steering; there's no way to dial out the backlash that's unavoidable with a single nut design. It'll be better than a worn nut, but still horrific. 

[FridgeFreezer]

16 hours ago, steve b said:

That part in the ebay ad is bolted to a small tube that runs through the centre of the column shaft and exits at the base of the box through the end plate with a pinch clamp holding it in place . The dip switch and horn wires run through the tube and the centre of the wheel in the cab is fixed .

OK so it's "just" wires running up a toob with enough length to handle a couple of turns either way?

Feels like there should be a few ways round that. Wonder if the later box/column could be modded to accept the tube up the middle? I'm guessing there's not much opportunity to fit a slip-ring/flexi casette like modern cars as it'd be very obvious.

[steve b]

Tube and top end with switch are fixed and don't move - a hang over from the Rover P4 .

Steve b

[Anderzander]

Though I’d be alright with it turning with the wheel if I could come up with a discreet or period looking slip ring - or some remote function. Both would still need a new way of securing the horn/dip assembly to the wheel.

I did wonder if there was scope to modify the S2 horn slip ring to run 2 circuits. Haven’t actually had one in my hand though to assess that.

[landroversforever]

I can't remember, did you rebuild the box? I like Lo-Fi's idea of modifying it to be a split nut type. Got any pictures of the insides?

[Anderzander]

I didn’t rebuild it ... it’s a bit like the gearbox: I remembered it as being much better than it is.

The video sort of shows what they are like inside. But I’ve come to realise the LoFi is right - they’ll always be ‘horrific’.  🤣

I’ve found a late S1 early S2 Nos LHD box, which would be the one to go for - the later boxes are longer, but these are the recirculating type.

i think the bottom line is that usability is more important than originality in a vehicle that’s not totally original anyway.