Stupid Lorry Driver Might Have Damaged My ENGINE!!

[Bowie69]

If a ring does break, then yes it is normally new rings and a quick glaze bust. 

 

[monkie]

7 hours ago, skirky dave said:

lo-fi

I take it i don't have to get the engine to TDC to start this procedure and to just do ONE piston at a time . Just one question ....IF i discover that a ring HAS broken, should i re/glaze the bore or just re/ring and fit. May sound a stupid question but i had to ask.

Cheers again mate.

 

Yes if you need to fit new rings, hone the bore so that the new rings can bed in. 

[Bowie69]

 

Looking here, on a 19J, which is essentially a 12J like you have with a turbo bolted on, the piston and rod will come out the top, no need to remove the engine/crank, just whip the sump off and unbolt the con rods. 

[monkie]

On 11/26/2019 at 1:37 PM, skirky dave said:

A few ago i was talking to a sound engineer about this kind of thing and he said, your better off with thin layers of different things,   ( i can't remember what they were now ) because different noises from different materials were heard at different frequencies so therefore needed different composites to render them inaudible. He also said it would be a fraction of the thickness and weight but could be done. It all went a little bit over my head about resonanse  to be honest !!. So i never bothered. It's a 1960 landy ..It gets muddy end off.

Yes to the layers of materials. I painted the underside of the seat box, floor, transmission tunnel with sound deadener paint. Covered the inside with dodo dead mat, 12mm closed cell foam on top of that then marine carpet. The difference is amazing. The dodo dead mat on the inside of the door skin and roof makes a huge difference as it stops the panels waffling about like a drum skin. 

[monkie]

9 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

 

Looking here, on a 19J, which is essentially a 12J like you have with a turbo bolted on, the piston and rod will come out the top, no need to remove the engine/crank, just whip the sump off and unbolt the con rods. 

Yes, not done it on an LR engine but my tractor (yes I am a stereotypical somerset man with a tractor!) I had a bent conrod and pushed the piston out from the bottom with the head off. It was easy to do, just wear eye protection as oil will still be dripping as you work. 

[Snagger]

Dave, I’ve never used a ring fitting tool - I’ve always done rings bare handed.  You have to be a bit careful, but they’re not that delicate.  The worst thing is if you break them they’re quite sharp, but you shouldn’t run that rush with fitting new rings and the likelihood of breaking an old one by removing it isn’t huge.  What is required, though, is the ring compression band for when you refit the pistons in their bores.  Any autofactors should sell them cheaply.

[skirky dave]

Hi Monkey....Phil,

Well,...i do have some really good news,  in a way!.  My youngest son is a mechanic, BUT....the garage he works for does NOT  allow the lads to work on vehicles UNLESS it goes through the books. The lads are sometimes  asked to work through their dinners etc , as and when  the boss books in too many jobs for the day and they always oblige but as soon as they want to do a job for a friend, relative etc it becomes a no no. Which they feel is unfair. I for one, don't blame them. Even working AFTER the days jobs are done and they want to use the hydraulic ramps to check a mates exhaust, it is given the elbow!!.  However, having said that, my son has his own piston ring compressor and has said he will bring it home for me to use. I already have the full timing pin kit, so that's not a problem. Members of my family have told me to hang fire with things as they've all been having a chat,.. and.by all accounts  Santa may come early,..Ooo that sounds promising.  !!. My son's problem is that , by the time he's finished work....it's dark. But if need be, he knows a mate who's just started up his own business  ( known each other for donkeys years and help each other out, as and when ) who has a 4 poster ramp, so.. we shall see.  Seems like everything is turning round for me.....for a change.

Lucky you for having the tractor, ...bet it's a huge 4 wheel drive John Deere .

So thanks for the offer Phil but i think we have things covered. I shall most likely be asking for advice later.

My son has also stated that, i'm probably best asking advice on certain issues regarding the landy from members here , because at his place, if the boss wants an engine taking out of a vehicle and sorting out, it's usually pulled out and sent to an engineering firm for them to strip and replace the parts as necessary parts. It's then returned to the garage and they refit the engine. So basically....there fitters!!.

Thanks anyway Phil, very generous of you for the offer, but  i think it's mostly in hand.

Cheers mate 

Dave.

[Snagger]

Dave, while your son’s boss is entirely entitled to prevent staff from doing private jobs on his property or using his equipment, and arguably is wise to do some from a liability point of view, what he cannot do is prevent staff from working on vehicles privately in their own time elsewhere.  That are also allowed to work for another garage, as long as it doesn’t interfere with their work hours at their primary job.  If he was to discipline your son for helping you on your engine at home on his own time, that’d be an easy win for any tribunal and would cost him a fair bit in fines and compensation.

[monkie]

Glad it's getting sorted. I didn't want you to have to buy any tools when I've got them sat at home on a shelf. 

My tractor is a little old one just for fun. It's a 1957 Nuffield Universal 3 😁

 

[steve b]

Blimey , that back wheel has had a hard life.

That's a very similar engine to my JCB 2 , nice 3 cyl unit

cheers

Steve b

[monkie]

The whole things had a hard life! Been trying to get the right pair of rear wheels for a while now, but it isn't important when I have a 110 draining my funds 😁

I'll look out the conrod I replaced and post a pic. It really is bent like a banana. This little Nuffield was a hedge row find. Made the farmer an offer and rescued it. 

[steve b]

good one

Steve

[skirky dave]

Phil.

It was only when my son popped in to see me,.( at his girlfriends house most of the time and don't see him for a couple of weeks at a time ) that i told him about the advise given here, that he said to me " At our place were dealing with cars that need plugging into our machines and testing for fault codes and some of the software costs a small fortune, it's too time consuming stripping down engines and we don't have the facility's to check crankshafts and the such, so we just send them away, get them rebuilt if they need it, and then we put them back in ".

He say's it's a different world to how it uses'd to be in your time Dad. We don't strip anything down like sensors , alternator's or starter motors. If there's a problem with modern cars, it gives us a fault code, we check it with multimeters, and order a new part on a service exchange basis, and replace it. He then said " The biggest problem with that is,...customers come in and tell us they can get the part much cheaper ( usually a cheap foreign part ) and expect it to last, like an expensive Bosche part., and it never does, then they complain because they think it's our fault the car has packed up again. You can't win Dad".

I just sat there and thought to myself, thank god i don't have sensors on my 2A.

That tractor looks mint mate. Did you rebuild that from scratch Phil ??.

[FridgeFreezer]

52 minutes ago, skirky dave said:

I just sat there and thought to myself, thank god i don't have sensors on my 2A.

Bad news - your water temp gauge and fuel gauge have sensors...

[Bowie69]

Just now, FridgeFreezer said:

Bad news - your water temp gauge and fuel gauge have sensors...

Technically I think they are senders

[skirky dave]

FridgeFreezer

Ha ha , yes , technicall,y but no to the same degree.

[skirky dave]

The amount of dodgy one's i've had over the years.

[monkie]

1 hour ago, skirky dave said:

Phil.

It was only when my son popped in to see me,.( at his girlfriends house most of the time and don't see him for a couple of weeks at a time ) that i told him about the advise given here, that he said to me " At our place were dealing with cars that need plugging into our machines and testing for fault codes and some of the software costs a small fortune, it's too time consuming stripping down engines and we don't have the facility's to check crankshafts and the such, so we just send them away, get them rebuilt if they need it, and then we put them back in ".

He say's it's a different world to how it uses'd to be in your time Dad. We don't strip anything down like sensors , alternator's or starter motors. If there's a problem with modern cars, it gives us a fault code, we check it with multimeters, and order a new part on a service exchange basis, and replace it. He then said " The biggest problem with that is,...customers come in and tell us they can get the part much cheaper ( usually a cheap foreign part ) and expect it to last, like an expensive Bosche part., and it never does, then they complain because they think it's our fault the car has packed up again. You can't win Dad".

I just sat there and thought to myself, thank god i don't have sensors on my 2A.

That tractor looks mint mate. Did you rebuild that from scratch Phil ??.

Thanks Dave. To be honest it is largely cosmetic. The engine had a bent conrod because water had run down the exhaust. I took the big end caps off and they looked fine so I left the bottom end alone. I just replaced all the fluids and filters, had the injectors serviced and lapped the valves when the head was off. It runs great. 

Thing is with modern cars, I think they are so much more reliable than they used to be. I remember my dad's cars breaking down when I was a kid and they were only about 3 or 5 years old. 

[skirky dave]

Oh yes i agree, but, the mere fact that only 1 light comes on the dash which indicates a fault and the owner should Contact The Local Dealer !!!  According to the owners manual, means that some people can be ripped off by the dealer.. In a perfect world it would have been great if it came up on the  dash screen, telling you which code it was and then being able to refer to the hand book as to which code it meant. i think it might give some of us some sort of an idea as to what could be wrong and what to look for. Or at least try to learn.   Instead of just an engine management light telling you to pull up straight away and blah blah blah DEALER ££££..There are apps which people download to their phones / computers to keep their cars tuned up, so if it can save us a few quid , hey ho. Just my opinion, i don't want to stamp on anyones toes. I have heard of people being told to bring the car into the garage at say 9 am and when the owner phones up at 4 PM to see if the car is ready, there told..."Just finished it mate " when in fact the car was ready at 12Noon and was charged for 4 hours extra labour.. My so called ex brother in law used to work for a large ish dealer and they practiced this kind of behaviour for years.      As a Land Rover enthusiast, i try my best to learn from people with years of experience, but i'm mainly a visual / kinaesthetic sort of learner as far as the land Rover is concerned.

[Snagger]

The practice of being told by a computer what is wrong with the car and then replacing whole assemblies is essentially fraud.  It results in a lot of serviceable parts being unnecessarily replaced while unskilled, inexperienced apprentices learn at someone else’s expense.  Those diagnostics might be ok for pointing to a problem area, but they’re all too often wrong in diagnosing the cause.

[FridgeFreezer]

2 hours ago, Snagger said:

The practice of being told by a computer what is wrong with the car and then replacing whole assemblies is essentially fraud.

That's the thing though - mostly the computer will just say something perfectly reasonable like "sensor out of range" (EG it's borken) and the tech will just swap the thing and move on without thinking, because 95% of the time that's all that's needed. It's no different than lazy mechanics ever used to do changing bits and bobs to try and fix a problem without the aid of a computer.

People always think computers "know" things like the cause of a faulty sensor - they don't. They only know the sensor reading is unexpected, it's the USER that infers that the cause is a bad sensor rather than spotting that mice have eaten the wiring loom.

Also, these days it often is entirely reasonable to change fairly large assemblies to fix a problem, when even back-street mechanics are £50+ per hour there's only so many hours it's worth them spending stripping & rebuilding a part compared to the relatively low cost of new parts nowadays. In the old days, parts were expensive and labour was cheap - that's no longer true in most places.

In places like Africa, China, Russia, etc. you can get someone to spend all day rebuilding your starter motor or carburettor for peanuts, while a new part might cost a month's wages, so they tend to rebuild stuff. It's not a conspiracy, it's economics.

[monkie]

My dad set up his own garage back in the 1970s when he left the RAF as a flight engineer. He said in hindsight he wasted a lot of time and potential money fault finding that in the end were either a simple fix (maybe an adjustment somewhere) or were so involved the customer wouldn't bother. He always said the person who came up with Kwik Fit had a good idea. Little fault-finding time, just replace the tyres or exhaust and get the next paying customers car on the ramps. 

The genius of modern cars is, if you can't plug it in to read or clear a code, you have no choice but pay someone who can. 

[Snagger]

12 hours ago, monkie said:

 

The genius of modern cars is, if you can't plug it in to read or clear a code, you have no choice but pay someone who can. 

That’s the thing.  Do you need a computer to diagnose most faults?  No, but now you need a computer to clear them and allow the car to operate normally.  Great little earner for the franchises when they launch new vehicles or update them with software the aftermarket reader equipped garages can’t interrogate.

[skirky dave]

Hi guys,  well this is my attempt at downloading images from my iPhone. Hopefully you can see the white tippex markes on the head gasket which I referred to earlier on in my post. The mark by the hole on the far left I think is some sort of gallery but the ones after that are clearly raised with a perforated hole in the middle, on close to cylinders 2/3 and 4.. If these are not clear enough, I shall take further images but closer.  I have a few more images to take tomorrow and will download these ASAP.  Cheers, Dave.

[skirky dave]

Forgot to mention , no 3 cylinder gasket looks a little squashed to the lerft on the picture.