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skirky dave

Stupid Lorry Driver Might Have Damaged My ENGINE!!

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The valve marks on the pistons happened when the timing belt broke the other year and haven't caused a problem. As said before , the hotspots just fell out when i lifted the head off but i can't see any damage to them at all, no cracks, nothing. Hopefully removing the sump tomorrow.

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28 minutes ago, skirky dave said:

The valve marks on the pistons happened when the timing belt broke the other year and haven't caused a problem. As said before , the hotspots just fell out when i lifted the head off but i can't see any damage to them at all, no cracks, nothing. Hopefully removing the sump tomorrow.

The hotpots are often not in that tight and can fall out when you lift the head from the block. They are held in place usually with a dab of grease when the head is put back on. 

How is the surface of the head? Did you adhear to the correct tightening procedure (in terms of torque and tightening sequence) when the head was put back on last time? 

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H i mate,

The head looks fine, at least to me. There are a few like heat marks , To the valves as though someone has applied heat to metal with a blow torch. Kind of like slight colored marks but that may be due to steam probably.   I'll take a couple of pics tomorrow.    I followed the torque settings to the letter, but i've since been told that i should have re torqued the head after 250 miles or so. Which i didn't. Come to think of it, the bolts did come out fairly easy.  Penny for your thoughts.

 

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Just a a question, are replacement conrods numbered and is it bad practice to only replace 1 or 2 if need be, or ...are you supposed to replace ALL 4 . i read somewhere , that, their supposed to be replaced ALL together as they come as a balanced set.  But i don't know ??.  Confused !.

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Swapping a couple into this engine will be fine. 

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I agree, no problem replacing only the bent rods.  But do make sure the cap and rod are given extra marks so you can’t mix up the caps from two rods with the same number.

 

That gasket is pretty rough, and the deformation around no.3 would make quite some ticking or tapping noise.

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Hi Monki, was you can see there’s a little discolouration on the valves which I think is due to steam, maybe. I don’t think there’s a problem as such with them and there’s no movement at all with the valve springs.  Snagger, cheers again mate for your thoughts. I had got it into my head that the high pitching noise was due to a loose hot spot, I never thought it could be caused by the gasket. However, a new elring gasket has been ordered plus other parts are in the pipeline. More images to come. Cheers guy’s,  Dave.

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I think the piston crown could have been clipping the gasket, but failed head gaskets often make tapping or ticking noises anyway, even if there are no moving part impacts (the classic Tdi head gasket failure between no4 and the rear of the engine sounds like someone repeatedly flicking a taught piece of paper).  Interesting that there are strong witness marks on the head of the distortion, both a coke “shadow” into the bore diameter but also the leaking gasses making a tree-root pattern away form the distortion.

Try decoking the hot spot voids to inspect them too.  Mike’s latest video working on a V8 shows how good oven cleaner is at getting it clean!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Snagger said:

 Interesting that there are strong witness marks on the head of the distortion, both a coke “shadow” into the bore diameter but also the leaking gasses making a tree-root pattern away form the distortion

Hi Nick,

Which parts are you referring to, sorry mate, you've lost me a little there. 

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Also, Nick,....Yes i have seen Mike using the oven cleaner, but more to the point, the way he uses Vinegar to neutralize it straight away afterwards followed by WE 40 to prevent rusting. I shouldn't have a problem with  my cylinder head with this stuff, as mine is pig iron and not ally like the V8 . I have some oven cleaner , so i'll give it a go . Also,..i noticed just before the ( incident !!!), that my engine / exhaust was burning a little blue smoke, so i'm thinking while i have it to bits and have access to the pistons , then i might as well buy a full set of rings £40 ish , deglaze the bores with the same tool as Mike used ,and re/ring it, as well as the bearings.    What a palave eh. You start one job and then......Landy's. don't ya just love em!!.

 

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Hi Monki, was you can see there’s a little discolouration on the valves which I think is due to steam, maybe. I don’t think there’s a problem as such with them and there’s no movement at all with the valve springs.  Snagger, cheers again mate for your thoughts. I had got it into my head that the high pitching noise was due to a loose hot spot, I never thought it could be caused by the gasket. However, a new elring gasket has been ordered plus other parts are in the pipeline. More images to come. Cheers guy’s,  Dave.

15677099-6EF7-4E71-8221-C3CD00D19CDC.jpeg

73144799-8CA6-4846-BB76-3C03A736FD86.jpeg

2E284D3E-2C05-42F8-845A-30828538D36A.jpeg

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Struggling a little with this phone downloading images to where I want to post them. Will try to get it sorted out. As I said previously, the engine appears to be running a little bit with blue smoke. Exhaust manifold is a bit gummed up so new rings will be put in whilst I’m at it 

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23 hours ago, skirky dave said:

Forgot to mention , no 3 cylinder gasket looks a little squashed to the lerft on the picture.

 

D8EC1130-1447-4B67-8168-F19CFDE55955.jpeg

 

The gasket damage has left an area of the head in no3 without the coming, which is what I meant by the shadow.  But within that area, there is a pattern of black lines that has travelled out between the gasket and head, indicating a leak. The gasket has certainly been leaking.  The reason for the damage is indeterminate.  It could have been a faulty gasket, movement of the head while tightening, a bow in the head or deck (check them both for flatness with a very straight and stiff edge like a steel ruler) or incorrect bolt torque.

Once you have cleaned out the hot spot voids, check for cracks in there.  If OK, then I think the damage is limited to the gasket and possibly any con rods.

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9 hours ago, Snagger said:

Try decoking the hot spot voids to inspect them too.  Mike’s latest video working on a V8 shows how good oven cleaner is at getting it clean!

I haven't seen Mike's latest video yet, and this method is absolutely fine on iron heads like on the 12J..... But a word of warning to anyone reading this with a later engine. Never use oven cleaner on aluminium heads (or any other aluminium part). Oven cleaner works by using sodium hydroxide to react with the baked on grease in your oven. Sodium Hydroxide is a very powerful caustic agent and will attack aluminium just as an acid would. 

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Nick,

Ok, got you now.  I will be cleaning up the head this week. I don't want to start stripping things apart until i have all the parts. Then it will be 1 piston removal and conrods + barings at a time ,so i don't mess things up !!!!. When you remove the piston through the cylinder, would i be correct in using a  wooden drift and some chopped up hose pipe on the threaded rods.

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49 minutes ago, skirky dave said:

Monkie.

Not to mention eye protection and gloves, if you splash that stuff in your eyes it's a trip to A&E,

Absolutely, it really nasty stuff. I'm amazed that the granules are still for sale to the general public. 

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16 hours ago, skirky dave said:

Nick,

Ok, got you now.  I will be cleaning up the head this week. I don't want to start stripping things apart until i have all the parts. Then it will be 1 piston removal and conrods + barings at a time ,so i don't mess things up !!!!. When you remove the piston through the cylinder, would i be correct in using a  wooden drift and some chopped up hose pipe on the threaded rods.

That will do the job perfectly.  You’re not likely to damage the crank removing the pistons and rods - it’s more likely when you refit them, but if you fit the hose or even warp the bolts in tape and set the crank vertical so the journals align naturally with the con rod as it comes down, and take it easy when tapping the piston down, then you’ll be fine.

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So....just to be clear on this,..you turn the crankshaft  so the piston is at the TOP of the bore,...then undue the bolts collecting the lower part of the bearing ,.. then push up the piston ///and out !!. Yes,

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Easier to undo the cap nuts when the piston is at the bottom of the bore, and likewise refitting.  But it doesn’t matter too much.  The key point is make sure the crank is orientated so that the con rod lines up with the journals naturally.  You can turn the engine half a turn to make access easier, though.

Be careful not to damage the bore oil jets during the work - they’re easily clobbered in the oily darkness.

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