Gazzar Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 My LWB has just failed the MoT on the fog lamp. It goes off when the main beam comes on. I thought that was correct. Why would you have fog lamps on when the main beams are on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Mine works that way too fog off when on mainbeam on 1986 110 csw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 So, what do I do? I think that the MoT guy is wrong, but he's only going by his reading of the guidance. I think I'll phone the garage in the morning and have a chat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 This is what is bothering him: affected by operation of any other lamp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) I think he’s wrong. Front fog lamps and main beam on at the same time just isn’t correct. The high beams bounce straight back off the fog and blank your view. Edited November 12, 2019 by Peaklander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 My 109 had a factory fitted rear fog light, and it only worked with dipped beam. Likewise my wife’s Lightweight and my RRC. The tester is misinterpreting his guidance. Modern cars have different wiring, and their fog lights work with dipped and main beam, but not older models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 In fact our Golf's front "fog lamps" switch on individually during a sharpish (slow) turn, in a form of driver assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 He's checked with his technical advice line, it's a fail. My choice; modify the loom or condemn the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 New regs: 13th September 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Remove the fog lamp for the test... Can't fail if it isn't fitted. Mine doesn't have one at all. Only a requirement after April 1980 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Didn't know about that recent reg. change , just about everything with a factory fit rear fog from introduction well into the 90's I think are dip only for rear fog , I'm pretty sure it was a regulation too . Simplest fix would be to power the rear fog from an ignition live , yours is an '81 so needs a rear fog I think? thanks for pointing it out , something to look out for . Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Very unusual for regs change to be retrospective! This was, after all, correct operation for the period. I suspect the testers conversation with the helpline was coloured with their (I'm still sure incorrect) interpretation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 Oh, I agree, but while I argue with the DFT, I need to pass the test. I'll bodge it, hopefully non permanently, tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 So far, there seem to be no MOT testers involved in this discussion. Are there any on this Forum? I ask because on the forum of the Series 2 Club there are a couple of MOT testers in active employment; they would probably have jumped in by now if this discussion was taking place on that forum. Some research later I see the vehicle here is an S3. S2s and 2As are now covered by the rolling 40 year MOT exemption, which may be why the topic hasn't come up on that forum, for those who have retro-fitted rear fog lights. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 I have to say that the MoT guy had been very helpful and professional; he's bound by the rules, which is fair enough (I approve of tough MoTs, but I think this rule change is unfair and unnecessary). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment#section-4-5-3 This states no other lamp must adversely affect the operation of the fog lamp. What it is checking for here is bad earths/wiring faults, and not whether the operation of it is correct or not. To pass with this tester, I don't think putting it to ignition live is the answer, if it ends up being long term. You should relay it from the sidelight wiring instead, that way you can't leave the fog light on by itself, without having the main lights on. My old cavalier would extinguish the rear fog when on main beam - reason being if you are able to use main beam without blinding yourself there is no need for a rear fog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 More links: https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/rear-fog-lamp.233090/ https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=47711 Sorry, but your tester is minterpreting the rules. It is *designed* to work this way, and you shouldn't need to be modifying a vehicle design to get it to pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 I agree with your interpretation, but that's not the advice he was given. The side lights are a good idea, as is the relay, but I'll still pursue fixing the rules, via the DFT, as this is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: More links: https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/rear-fog-lamp.233090/ https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=47711 Sorry, but your tester is minterpreting the rules. It is *designed* to work this way, and you shouldn't need to be modifying a vehicle design to get it to pass. The rules have changed, he's not wrong. It's daft, and unfair, but he's following the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 I don't agree I'm afraid Yes, the rules have changed, however this is not 'adversely affecting', if it is by design, adverse meaning: 'preventing success or development; harmful; unfavourable.' it's none of those You can appeal to further ups, the area manager for instance, you never know, they may make a clarification in the testing guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 It's an independent garage, with a tech support phone line. That avenue is exhausted. My options are another garage or modify the loom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 I'm with Bowie, that's a very poor interpretation... It annoys me giving into pedants, particularly when they're wrong, but it doesn't always make life easy. Swap out the supply into or bypass the inhibit relay should sort you out without much hassle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 6 hours ago, Gazzar said: It's an independent garage, with a tech support phone line. That avenue is exhausted. My options are another garage or modify the loom. You can still make a complaint, straight to dvsa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 Done that. We'll see if they ever respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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