Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I've just removed the A frame ball joint on my 97 130 to replace with a Gwyn Lewis ball joint ready pressed into the bracket. The issue I have is that the existing bracket/bolts have 24mm heads with corresponding shanks and the replacement bolts are 19mm head with smaller shank. Hence, the existing bolts are too big to go through the bracket and/or the new bolts are too small for the existing A frame arms. I cant find any alternative ball joint brackets listed.... Can anyone help? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
western 943 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 There are Imperial & Metric variants.of the A frame ball joint housing/bracket to axle Imperial LR part NRC3923 Metric LR part ANR3037 the 3rd variant is for the 110 Boge strut fitted station wagons, this has the cup for the Boge strut lower ball joint. the only listed bolts are LR Part 253952 1/2 UNF x 6.5 inches long. as far as I can find out. I bought a Britpart A frame ball joint kit IIRC came with the long bolts, kit part number is DA1129 https://www.britpart.com/all-parts/da1129 Fitting kit https://www.britpart.com/parts/suspension-and-axle/axle/fulcrum-brackets/da1129kit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 Thanks for the reply. I've been through the parts catalogue and can only find 2 versions listed for the bracket but all the bolts are the same. I'm going to take it off again tomorrow to properly assess whats going on. I wonder if somebody (ex military) has removed the metal bushes in the arms and drilled the bracket out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
western 943 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I suggest speaking to Gwyn Lewis to check the correct bolts have been sent. There are No bushes at the ball joint end of the arms, the just go straight in to the arm/ball joint housing/arm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 Sorry, when i say 'bush', what I really mean is there appears to be some metal tubes pressed into the arm. I wonder if these have been removed. I will check tomorrow. The bolts supplied with Gwyns ball joint are correct to the parts he supplied. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
western 943 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 That looks like it has cast bosses on it wondering if 130 arms are different They don't look like my 110's A frame arms, mine are Flat where the ball joint housing fit, my arms after bead blasting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 This is so odd...... From what I can work out, NTC2707 & NTC2706 are the only arms available. The ones pictured are labelled with genuine parts labels as such. Do you know if yours are genuine parts?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
western 943 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Yes mine are the original 1989 arms fitted by LR when my 110 was built. Found these later from 2007 vehicles on, these look to have the bosses like yours, http://www.euro4x4parts.com/parts/sti1098-5565_radius_trailing_arm_LR045323.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
western 943 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 http://cat.lrparts.ru/?category=53485 click on items 1 & 2 for the arm part numbers & 17 for the bolts which comes up with the same number as the bolts I posted above. wonder if your arms have been misslabelled https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/88750/399/a_frame_upper_link_right_hand___defender___discovery_1___range_rover_sport Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 I wasn't clear, the picture I originally posted was from an ebay advert. The ones from euro4x4parts still look to have the smaller hole but i'll check tomorrow and probably give Gwyn a call as he's always been really helpful. I'm at least 80% convinced there is something dodgy about mine. The fact there is only 1 bolt part number really does suggest mine have been opened up in some way. No idea why? I'll post back when i've got a solution. Thanks again. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
western 943 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Your Welcome Ian, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 I’ve removed the ball joint again, its stamped HRC1197, I can’t find this part number in the catalogue.....?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 My existing ball joint has 16mm holes, the new one has 13mm holes. Just spoken with Gwyn, he thinks someone has drilled my ball joint and arms and I have 2 choices. 1. Drill the new ball joint to 16mm (all other dimensions are identical) 2. Replace the A frame arms with standard ones. It’s a 130 at 3500kgs so I’m wondering if the smaller bolts would be acceptable??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daveturnbull 279 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 I would be tempted to go with: 3. Replace the ball joint in the original fulcrum. At least you know it all matches up then. They're not that tricky to do if you have a decent vice and can swing a hammer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 I did ask Gwyn about that option (hoping to use the wide angle greaseable joint) but he said he’s had feedback that people struggle to remove or fit his joints without damaging them. I am favouring returning it to standard LR by getting replacement arms but I could do with some reassurance the standard 1/2” bolts would be ok? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rightfoot 3 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 The numbers stamped on the forgings are the non machined part numbers HRC1197 on the a-frame mounting, from memory you will see HRC1705 and HRC 1706 on the a-frame arms. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 I’ve sanded the arms to find the part numbers, HRC1705/6 so the arms and ball joint have definitely been drilled out. I’m the first owner post military use. Why would the military drill these out? Did they have some fail? The 1/2” bolts looks reasonably substantial for their required use Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daveturnbull 279 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Given that all other LR's seem to use the smaller bolts I think you'll probably be ok. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 Thanks for all your comments. I am 99% sure i’ll replace the arms now with standard ones. Having scraped the paint from my 130 and rust from my 90, I can confirm they both have the HRC1705/6 arms so no difference between 90/130. It looks like this part number is long gone now though and been replaced with NTC2706/7. Can anyone confirm that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oneandtwo 112 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 I would get a pair from a rotten discovery1. You can’t give those arms away normally! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, oneandtwo said: I would get a pair from a rotten discovery1. You can’t give those arms away normally! There’s plenty available that’s for sure! It’s just most are advertised as the later part number and I just want to make sure they’re compatible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bowie69 1,549 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 The HRC numbers aren't part numbers, just casting numbers, and can be used for more than one part number with different machining operations. I've never heard of a a-frame failure at that point so I would suggest the half inch bolts are more than adequate. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Troll Hunter 125 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 I agree with Bowie69. If you Google HRC1179 you get some hits: https://www.google.com/search?q=HRC1197&rlz=1C1FGUR_enGB715CA725&oq=HRC1197&aqs=chrome..69i57.12480j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
western 943 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Changing the arms for the normal standard items & using the new joint bracket & the 1/2 diameter bolts will be fine. I don't know why your existing arms were drilled out to 16mm, maybe that was the only bolts in stock & the vehicle section had to return it to duty as soon as possible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian_Fearn 48 Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 Thanks for all the replies. It’s been very helpful. I’ve ordered a couple of used arms and I’m going to go with the standard parts. If the ball joint ever needs replacing again, especially if I’m away from home then having standard parts will just be much easier. I’m still on the hunt for the clonking noise through!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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