Landrover17H Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) Here we go, various pix of a 17H in a leafer, you're aiming to plumb the upper-hose thus... Edited June 13, 2020 by Landrover17H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrover17H Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) However to do this you're best with this casting, all have the outlet marked [Red square]. Some don't have the rearmost, and plumb as a Series which is more awkward. For those of us running the ACR manifold, this is all the more useful. The ACR casting is water-heated, this outlet is also good for running gas, thus plumbing-in your reducer or vapouriser. If you lack the rearmsot outlet, you'll cope but be aware a better way exists. And no, a random piccy from a eBay listing, I never did figure out what that heater-mod was... Edited June 13, 2020 by Landrover17H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Rover V8 sensor is this one I believe: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120712827641 Certainly not the one that you link above, it needs to have two terminals. The one you show is a gauge sender, with a single spade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 @17H That's fascinating! I can't recall what came with the engine... I had planned on the series stuff, but this does get me ( over) thinking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Bowie69 said: Rover V8 sensor is this one I believe: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120712827641 Certainly not the one that you link above, it needs to have two terminals. The one you show is a gauge sender, with a single spade. Right. You did say that, I didn't take it in. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Rover V8 sensor is this one I believe: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120712827641 Certainly not the one that you link above, it needs to have two terminals. The one you show is a gauge sender, with a single spade. That looks easier to plumb than the gauge sensor. I wonder what thread it is.... I've not got the 2.5 heater take off manifold at all, I don't think the engine came with it. Not do I have any heater take off points other than the standard series on my collection of coolant iron work. And so, I think I'll tap into the head on the side opposite the standard sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrover17H Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) Quote I've not got the 2.5 heater take off manifold at all, I don't think the engine came with it. That's a pig. Thread etc; Minded to my requirements being only to drive the Series gauge, replaced mine recently, and here's my notes: Water Temperature sender 560794 Series Water Temperature gauge needs 75 ohms from sender to read normal Thread 5/8" x 18 UNF Brand: Intermotor 52770 Product Code: 52770 Cross reference Land rover 555843 , 560794 Smiths TT4801/00A Intermotor 52770 Lucas SNB125 temperature sender Edited June 13, 2020 by Landrover17H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrover17H Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) If I remember right, a 17H has a large diameter thread adaptor at the gauge port, might not be found 'large diameter' enough. Might be a case of "Think twice cut once", those 17H heads are pricey, and it's not the money, it's finding the damned things. HRC1303 is not to be confused with earlier heads, lots of material to skim, machine etc. It's the best casting to have. Edited June 13, 2020 by Landrover17H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 I have a spare. Not sure what casting it is, mind, but it's a 110 head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 And a few sensors to play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 The spare is HRC1303! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrover17H Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) You lucky, lucky, LUCKY B&%tARD. I'm sure you're aware, if only for the fact that it comes with unleaded valves, they're sought after. Roland likes them 'cos he has material to play with. Even in stock form, they flow better. That sender outlet differs from mine. Mine has a Mahoosive Metric adaptor, which takes it down to the sender thread. Your sender looks larger in the thread, yet not as large as mine. Edited June 13, 2020 by Landrover17H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 I had it on my 2286, as an unleaded head. I think that if I could get ERC8758 I'd be okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 Or could I use the stupid boss on the water pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrover17H Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 If we ignore Craddocks, ERC8758 looks cheap, see piccy. At under £30 I'd bite their hand off if I were you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 Hand bitten. Thanks for the pointer. This gives me a few options, I can put the ms sensor in the head, and the gauge sensor on one of the ports for heaters. Or not. No drilling of the head. Like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrover17H Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) Good, can't see you solving it better for less. Only this is one of those things, sure £30 odd won't break the bank, yet it's the steady climb. One more on the list. A casting here, a bag of citric acid there.... The running total to my gauge project (see other thread) is at £270, that's without the dearest gauge, the O2. It's only when I added it all up??? Can we ask, what's the 'real' spend to date? Or is SWMBO standing over your shoulder? Or are we already at the point where you prefer not to be reminded? This stuff costs not just time, but money. It's a hobby too, if like me you tend to forget. I for one would genuinely like to know where the wallet stands? Edited June 13, 2020 by Landrover17H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigj66 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Not sure if this has already been muted but could you fit an adapter in place of where the cable operated heater valve goes on a 2.25? On the picture of the 2.5 it looks like the valve is removed and the heater hose goes direct to the head. If you could make an in-line adapter then a sender could easily be screwed into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, Bigj66 said: Not sure if this has already been muted but could you fit an adapter in place of where the cable operated heater valve goes on a 2.25? On the picture of the 2.5 it looks like the valve is removed and the heater hose goes direct to the head. If you could make an in-line adapter then a sender could easily be screwed into it. That's one option. I'd have a concern that the reading might not be accurate enough for the ms system, and so will aim to use the standard gauge position for that sensor. Not too bothered by the gauge sensor positioning, but preferably in an area that is representative of the coolant pumped out of the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 35 minutes ago, Landrover17H said: Good, can't see you solving it better for less. Only this is one of those things, sure £30 odd won't break the bank, yet it's the steady climb. One more on the list. A casting here, a bag of citric acid there.... The running total to my gauge project (see other thread) is at £270, that's without the dearest gauge, the O2. It's only when I added it all up??? Can we ask, what's the 'real' spend to date? Or is SWMBO standing over your shoulder? Or are we already at the point where you prefer not to be reminded? This stuff costs not just time, but money. It's a hobby too, if like me you tend to forget. I for one would genuinely like to know where the wallet stands? Don't care about the cost much. And I'm not tracking it, much to swmbos annoyance and confusion. Meh. I don't get a new motor every two years, I don't smoke, I drink sparingly, I don't gamble, nor do I play golf. I enjoy fixing stuff, making stuff, figuring out better ways to achieve the objective. At the end of the day I'll have a great Landrover, that will be worth the sum of the parts, plus, and I'll drive it till they pry it from my dead hands. And it will still cost less than three years depreciation on a new 0.8l Ford Mondex tdpi executive ghia. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2.5 would never have had the heater valve on the thermostat housing as 90s and 110s have unrestricted flow to their heater matrix; they have an air control flap inside the matrix housing to divert air through or around the matrix instead of having the air all go through the matrix and controlling the water flow with a valve prone to rusting or scaling up. Don't put a sensor on the heater circuit. Any blockage or vapour lock and it’ll get false readings. I’d plumb the heating as per standard SIII and use the 90/110 union near the back left corner for a sensor, assuming the 17H has the same sensor and plumbing ports as the 12 and 19 J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 Back left corner of the head? Near piston 4? Or this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Near the heater unit, on top of the head, similar to a 200Tdi. I must have got mixed up, because now I think harder, I used SIII pipes on my 12J to the thermostat housing, and the sender unit on the top of the head near the heater. It was between the second and third head bolt from the back, so roughly between the intake ports for 3 and 4. I don’t know if the petrol head has that, but it’d be a good spot if it does. With your sender in the thermostat housing and if you do have that spot on the top of the head, you’re set. If not, it might be worth using the 90/110 thermostat housing top piece and have one of the sender ports tapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 I've only skimmed the sensor talk but my 2p's worth: MS needs coolant temp (CTS), Inlet Air Temp (IAT) and the MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) sensor to work*, optionally a lambda sensor in the exhaust for closed-loop operation. The DEFAULT sensors for IAT and CTS are actually common GM types, the Rover V8 CTS needs setting up in the firmware - I believe Microsquirt being MS2 you can just plug the sensor values in with no problem. Nige supplies Fuelparts AT1010 as an IAT, it's a GM-flavoured sensor fitted to some Renaults I think. For either sensor, if you can measure its resistance (Ohms) at a couple of known temperatures (ice cube and boiling water being easy ones to accurately achieve) then you can plug the values into MS and use whatever sensor you want, so if there's one from a Ford that happens to have the right thread for a hole in your engine I'd use that rather than bu**er about trying to adapt a Rover one. What IS different about the ECU-type sensors over gauge sensors is that they tend to have 2 pins so that the earth-return goes to the ECU to give a more accurate/cleaner reading, rather than earthing through the block and picking up all the interference from starter/alternator/sparks etc. The exact location of the sensors isn't super-important as MS is only applying corrections based on the changes (and you can change those corrections) - my IAT is on my airbox, for a long time it was zip-tied to the snorkel, it doesn't have a massive effect on things and it's possible to mount it too close to the engine and have it affected by heat-soak from the engine rather than measuring the actual air temp, I believe @Bull Bar Cowboy had issues with this early on. *=Actually it can work with none of these but it's less than optimal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 Useful. I might ask Nige to suggest sensors, and start the discussion about the correct ms unit for this application. Getting a sensor that uses a thread that's cheap to tap would be good. I've a boss for the lambda in the exhaust, so that's in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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