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2.5 petrol rebuild and conversion to EFI thread?


Gazzar

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It seems a lot of effort for little, if any gain. I’d have thought that the standard manifold coupled to a decent stainless system would work equally well and be easier to fit.

There again, who am I to talk 🤣🤣

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33 minutes ago, Bigj66 said:

I’m guessing there’s a reason why the standard 2.5 exhaust manifold can’t be used?

Plus, I don't have one.

 

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9 minutes ago, Bigj66 said:

It seems a lot of effort for little, if any gain. I’d have thought that the standard manifold coupled to a decent stainless system would work equally well and be easier to fit.

There again, who am I to talk 🤣🤣

The standard pipe is derived from the 60's series manifold, the ACR part is designed from the 80's book of performance bling.

I expect it only helps at higher revs, but as I do want a reasonable top speed, that's important to me.

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There's been several performance exhaust manifolds produced for the 4-pot over the years. I've had the Lukey system, this gave little gain, and only made things louder. But it was stainless. The Ashley system in M/S, looks identical to the Lukey job. Which I don't know, but I suspect one copied the other? The ACR pipe does work, I don't think it adds much to the top-end, that might be the way I drive.I don't drive top-end.  It moves the power down a few hundred rpm. This I like.

I consider it a worthy gain, and I've had mine 15-16 years. More because of elements of my own making, it's been a rocky road. I was rather more affluent at the time thus had the ACR fitted, unfortunately this was done poorly (that shackle-bolt again) and by time the monkey-job was sorted the damage was done. It's been on and off my 109 a lot. Not knowing that tie-rods where even a 'thing' by the time I had it all sorted my pipe was suffering the effects of bad treatment from shackle-bolts and gearbox movement. Mine sat around with a hole punched in it, and it's all a bit of a sorry story. I only had it doing all  it should for about two years in its life.  But as I said, that's more about a sloppy install than the pipe.

It's a good product, and if I had a spare £450 I'd buy another. But I'd want it in stainless. Mine's got a stock set-up on there now, and it's definitely taken a fair hit in power. In fact, for stainless i'd pay rather more. There's a fella I know looking to sell these (in S/S), he has my ACR pipe now. I'd be very surprised if he's not  found reading this thread  That's quite a task, watch this space.

Young Gary, love your thread. I'd be very keen to see it continue where you're setting up the Mega end to this, and anything  'engine-related', but all this must be a burden to do. I count near 20,000 hits... jeez?! However you've gained too, a collective eye over your 'doings' has moved you on.

If you stopped soon, few could blame you. Well done.

Edited by Landrover17H
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Not stopping! I've to build fuel tanks, and fit wiring looms etc, all of which I'd rather do on the lightweight build thread.

And the advice, help, watchful eye, has been amazing. Thanks all.

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Just a note on LR17H's comments - Lambda bungs aren't that critical, it's exhaust leaks and misfires that will throw your readings off.

You don't need a wideband to get a pretty damn good tune, honestly until you get to the last 1% on a rolling road it's not needed.

Although there's no ready-to-go tune for the 2.25p you'd be surprised, once you get the timing somewhere in the ballpark most things will start & run on the default map that's in the ECU much like most things would start & run on the wrong carb.

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1 hour ago, Gazzar said:

I think so. If I do something related to the engine I'll try to remember to post here.

 

Don’t worry - we can just put links between your two threads - or even consider asking an admin to merge them ? 
 

Either way I’m more than ready to pick up progress in the other one 😊👍🏻

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Just as an aside. A friend recontly bought a very, very expensive manifold and down-pipe form a well know (and very expensive performance tuning company). Said downpipe for the 2.25/2.5 lump retailed at £560. It arrived and was returned - due to being welded by a badly trained, one armed monkey. It was 'repaired' and sent back and has been returned again with a request for re-reimbursement. 

Another friend - who builds bits to build aeroplanes - has scanned said manifold and down-pipe and requested 'a contractor' to make a replacement. Said 'contractor' is a micro tig expert in 'Murica and makes shiny stuff...

Gazzer - as a mate and potential friend (and because you are very kind) I can ask if two could be made rather than one. Price will be base cost...

By the way, said expensive performance company's manifold and down-pipe was utter carp in it's design

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I take on board FF's comments re set-up. I'm sure he's right. I have to say I guessed mine for a long while, and it worked well enough. A wideband helped a lot, but I'm sure I could have coped with less. It's just easier, rolling-roads don't come cheap, A WB will pay for itself in less RR time. And you've always got it. As FF says, not essential, and even a small leak will make nonsense of it all. They're around £130-140 (Innovate), which in RR time is peanuts. Roland at ACR put me up to this idea, and I say he was right to.  No regrets at all. You can't keep RR time?  If you've got the pennies...

A manifold? Ah, now you're talking. I hope he comes back, he may be working on things, but my first source owes me nothing, he's certainly not my servant. Despite cash inducement, he's gone quiet. Put me down as number 3. If in S/S, that'll be one difficult thing to produce, I'd expect to pay rather more than £560. Make it known, I kid not. One-offs are dear and time-consuming, very happy to subsidise another. Cash awaits. As I said, I'm fighting off buying another in M/S, the ACR version is made to a price.

I kid not. If this is serious, I assure I am.

O2.png

Edited by Landrover17H
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I'd also point out that the total time I've spent on a rolling road tuning any of my 4 MS installs is zero. Normal non-rolling road works fine unless you're determined to wring the last % out of it.

I only recently borrowed a WBO2 from a friend to double-check the tune in the 127, in the end it turned out to make little difference to where it was already - and I'm a complete muppet at tuning.

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I'll be tuning this on a private road, and off road. That is, if I ever get it started and on the trailer....

I need to start designing the workshop air systems, I've a lot of painting to do.

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4 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

This sort of thing?

https://www.johnrichardssurplus.co.uk/throttle-linkage-ball-joint-535168.html

Should be easy enough to bolt it on there?

Yes, that's a good option. Thanks.  I wonder could I rob one of a carb somewhere.

I wonder what the throttle body lever was designed to take, some sort of rose joint thing?

Ideally, I'd like the LR ball on the bell crank, and the VW thing on the throttle, with the rod as the neutral zone. It might be more robust.

I'll ask the guys that sold the throttle.

 

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Ah, NRC5494 - It's a bit drastic, but better in the finish. I threw the lot and went with a Defender V8 cable. It has a clevis pin which will fall onto what we see here. You'll need the pedal-assy with it, used, they're cheap enough. The rod set-up takes so much space too. Space you can use for swirl-pots, relay boxes, Mega-ECU, coil-packs etc? De-clutters - you'd think you've got lots of space under there, but it soon runs out. This set-up makes for less ON or OFF 'feel' over the rods on my SU. But then, you don't have an SU...

Looking to the standard you've set for the rest of this job, reckon you could be persuaded? Likely you want not just the throttle-box, but the  coiler brake pedal-box in there too? Stonking great servo et al. This assumes you're going to discs?

Defender V8 throttle cable NRC5494 Pic.png

Edited by Landrover17H
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