Disco_Dunk Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Stuck in traffic last night when this question occurred to me...... Assuming the same road surface and identical tyres, which would win in a tug o' war between a tdi Disco and a tdi Def90? The Disco is heavier, but the 90 has lower gearing - anyone want to offer an opinion? And if anyone's got a Disco and a Def90, maybe they can do a definitive test!! Just a bit of fun to brighten the gloom of returning to work..... Dunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Assuming both drivers stuck it in low box then the gearing becomes the same and I'd guess the heavier one would have an advantage so the Disco would win. Also don't they tend to have a couple more BHP in RR/Disco guise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 What about if one was on mud and the other on aspalt? The one with the more grip wins. IMHO therefor, I am assuming that the disco will have the greater traction on asphalt and so will win. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Ali and I used to do nose to nose push offs in out two 90 2.5d about ten years ago now.(both had winch bumpers) both with muds one on grabers mts and one on wildcat exts. one hard top one soft top. the winer was always the first to put the power down as from moving backwards you cant get the grip to push back. The Boy racers hated us after clubing on a sat night in 24h McDonalds carpark where the petrol heads used to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Well it isn't quite the same but... I pulled a crashed 90 out of a 45 degree ditch and back on to tarmac once with the old Discovery. Only after I finished did I find out that the handbrake was jammed on (the guy in it had said OK to go then realised he couldn't get the handbrake off). No problems no wheelspin and that was up a 30 degree bank and back onto tarmac. One of the early Discovery Series 2 promotional videos showed a D2 towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee backwards across tarmac with smoke pouring off the Jeep's tyres. Quite how that was accomplished with the completely b***cks ETC system on the early Discoverys is beyond me but I guess it proves that weight is king Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Assuming both drivers stuck it in low box then the gearing becomes the same and I'd guess the heavier one would have an advantage so the Disco would win. Also don't they tend to have a couple more BHP in RR/Disco guise? nope only the 200Tdi's were different in bhp 107 & torque 188, all 300Tdi's on manual boxes are 111bhp &195lbft torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Weight only becomes an issue if traction is a problem... I'd guess that tyre type and pressures would be more important? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pux Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 If anyone in the amesbury/swindon (i work there) area has a 300tdi d90 i will happily put this theroy to the test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco_Dunk Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 If anyone in the amesbury/swindon (i work there) area has a 300tdi d90 i will happily put this theroy to the test You're a braver man than me! In this scenario, would the total load on the rope (and the recovery points) be twice that of a single vehicle? Getting on for 5 tons, I'm guessing? Dunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoatBuoy Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 If anyone in the amesbury/swindon (i work there) area has a 300tdi d90 i will happily put this theroy to the test Coupling height would also be an issue, although this is not so important as your bit of rope get longer. I.e. A nato jaw on a 90 would tend to lift help lift up a standard tow ball off a disco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 The one with the auto box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco_Dunk Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 I'm auto-ignorant, so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but what difference would it make - are the ratio's different on an auto? The one with the auto box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 The 90 will win because the Disco will break down Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Goon Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Not forgetting of course that a 110 would beat either............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pux Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 The 90 will win because the Disco will break down Les. never ur panels would fall off first and rear cross member fall apart well i have a nato hook on my disco and the tow rope i have is rated to pull a tank so, it would be fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I once saw a couple of blokes doing this and thought what a pair of tw*ts they looked. more like a pi**ng competition. daft and risky IMHO. Ps TXT speak on forums? ever so slightly annoying to read, anyones else agree? typing the correct length word costs no more and keeps the site one step above from other sites where it seems common place amongst youngsters. Now I sound like my Dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I'm auto-ignorant, so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but what difference would it make - are the ratio's different on an auto? No clutch to burn out and infinite control over putting the power down without spinning the wheels and loosing traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pux Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I once saw a couple of blokes doing this and thought what a pair of tw*ts they looked.more like a pi**ng competition. daft and risky IMHO. Ps TXT speak on forums? ever so slightly annoying to read, anyones else agree? typing the correct length word costs no more and keeps the site one step above from other sites where it seems common place amongst youngsters. Now I sound like my Dad fair enough im not sure, what text speak are you on about?? im sure that IMHO= TEXT SPEAK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I tried it with my Rangie chained to a 2a lwb diesel. As has been mentioned it's pretty much down to technique. I couldn't pull the 2a deadweight with the driver stood on the brakes without a snatch. If you stand on the brakes let the other driver bounce around for a bit, catch him with his foot on the clutch and pull you have a chance. I do have a couple of pictures but the scanners not working at the momment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksmelly Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I thought that manual TDi disco's and TDi defenders had the same transfer boxes? 1.4:1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Nope disco's had 1.222, manual or auto, V8 or chip fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun D Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 The Disco would win hands down as the Defender driver would be too busy trying to unhook his belt loop from the doorkeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 If anyone in the amesbury/swindon (i work there) area has a 300tdi d90 i will happily put this theroy to the test I'm, in Swindon. it'll be laugh! I tried this years ago when i had a 200Tdi 90 hard top, and a mate had a hilux 2.4 diesel. he had "silly" (in them days) 35" tyres.... ("wooooo" all the crowd say...) and my 90 had 7.50 XCL's on. we were on Salisbury plain, dry day, brownish earth. one of my little tow ropes (V8 Freak knows the ones! ) towbar to towbar. he tried pulling me. i stuck my foot on the brake and stopped him. i then drove forward in 1st low and dragged him backwards whilst he was still driving forwards. Kids eh? on another note.... ages ago i was on excercise, i was driving a Spartan CVR(T) 7 ton tracked recce vehicle. one of our Foden EKA 27 ton 6x6 recovery trucks pulled up onto a grass verge and proceeded to sink at an alarming angle. so we put the recovery bar on the back of the spartan (i was parked on a tarmac road) and the foden 10 ton front winch was attached to me. i say with handbrake on and foot on the brake pedal. i was pulled backwards. so was informed to engage "emergency low" (1st gear, just very low ratio), as i couldn't see what was happening behind me, i just did it. revving the nuts off of it, i was still dragged backwards, whist driving forward in a 7 ton tracked tank! once i got out did i finally see the state of the road and the grass verge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pux Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I'm, in Swindon. it'll be laugh! I tried this years ago when i had a 200Tdi 90 hard top, and a mate had a hilux 2.4 diesel. he had "silly" (in them days) 35" tyres.... ("wooooo" all the crowd say...) and my 90 had 7.50 XCL's on. we were on Salisbury plain, dry day, brownish earth. one of my little tow ropes (V8 Freak knows the ones! ) towbar to towbar. he tried pulling me. i stuck my foot on the brake and stopped him. i then drove forward in 1st low and dragged him backwards whilst he was still driving forwards. Kids eh? on another note.... ages ago i was on excercise, i was driving a Spartan CVR(T) 7 ton tracked recce vehicle. one of our Foden EKA 27 ton 6x6 recovery trucks pulled up onto a grass verge and proceeded to sink at an alarming angle. so we put the recovery bar on the back of the spartan (i was parked on a tarmac road) and the foden 10 ton front winch was attached to me. i say with handbrake on and foot on the brake pedal. i was pulled backwards. so was informed to engage "emergency low" (1st gear, just very low ratio), as i couldn't see what was happening behind me, i just did it. revving the nuts off of it, i was still dragged backwards, whist driving forward in a 7 ton tracked tank! once i got out did i finally see the state of the road and the grass verge! he he i have driven foden reckers and done a couple of silly things in them, love em to bits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 OK - Technical answer! On Tarmac, the amount of traction is proportional to the weight on a wheel. This does not apply on mud as the cohesion of the mud plays a part, as does the amount of mud thrown backwards (Equal and opposite reaction - and all that). Therefore, assuming the tyres and technique are the same, the disco will win. In both cases, the engine and box produces enough torque to break traction - so they are not the deciding factor. C U L8R Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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