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MS new build questions. help!


mikeh501

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18 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

And no I can't remember if it's front or rear that's the correct one :ph34r:

I think it's the rear - that's listed as 'egoGauge' in the Tunerstudio definitions, front is 'ego2Gauge'. 

That said - what's your exhaust setup? Some of the v8s came with twin lambdas (one in each bank) I believe, but I think it was the cat only pipes which it appears that yours has - if so do you have 2 lambdas fitted, or have you added another boss further downstream for a single lambda?

Once it's running, I'd recommend you invest in a wideband - at least then you have a reasonably accurate idea of what the fuelling is doing, rather than the narrowband which is a bit finger in the air. It will more than likely pay for itself in saved fuel costs :)

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1 hour ago, =jon= said:

That said - what's your exhaust setup? Some of the v8s came with twin lambdas (one in each bank) I believe, but I think it was the cat only pipes which it appears that yours has - if so do you have 2 lambdas fitted, or have you added another boss further downstream for a single lambda?

Not only that but the standard ones are titania type which don't work directly with MS, you need the more common universal zirconia type.

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Its only got 1 lambda fitted hence the confusion....

It must surely be Front Bank O2 voltage and Air:Fuel Ratio2 on the screenshot I posted earlier. Im assuming as Fridge says theother reading is just noise in some way.

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I think im going to stop fiddling and get it MOT'd and see what happens. It looks and feels ok just idling and manuevering about.  Guy I know is coming over this week with some trade plates and a 4 gas analyser so should get a good idea which tell the story.

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So I got to put a 4 gas analyser on it and got it sorta close to MOT levels but its still above so probaby need to replace the downpipes as the cats are knackered right now. 

Also got the idle running properly without closed loop PWM. Had a head scratcher on the PWM, as 0 isnt off! 40 off and 80 cold is what ive got and it seems to work ok.

Ive also turned off EGO control as it just doesnt work at all. always reads lean and keeps dropping more fuel in which then smells proper rich. its patently not right. 

Might be a new o2 sensor from nige but his webshop is closed. is the o2 sensor an off the shelf item? Second Q, can you use a wideband with ms1/extra? anybody got a recommendation

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An O2 sensor should be off the shelf, as long as you get the right type - FF might be able to advise, but I'd prob just put a wideband in after the Y so you get readings from both banks not just one. 

In terms of WB - Innovate LC2 / AEM or Spartan 14.7 are all good. You want one with a 0-5v output, which you should be able to connect to the EGO in wire on the MS, then change the settings in Tunerstudio (Basic Settings / Exhaust Gas Settings) to tell it you have a Wideband.. You will need to be careful of ground offsets (use the same grounds and pos feed as the MS for the wideband...)

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1 hour ago, mikeh501 said:

Also got the idle running properly without closed loop PWM. Had a head scratcher on the PWM, as 0 isnt off! 40 off and 80 cold is what ive got and it seems to work ok.

Yep, if you read the manual it explains all this ;) you should test it by setting  different duty cycles until it is closed and work from there.

It is a fail safe, if it fails, it springs open and your engine will still start and run even when cold, as it will pick the idle up permanently :)

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Your quick Lambda sensor guide;

From the factory your truck probably had Titania-type (resistive) sensors, these don't work with MS without modification to the ECU.

Universal-fit Zirconia type as found at every car parts place for around £20 are narrowband, generate 0-1v and work with MS directly. Usually 4 wires these days as they're heated. You can do perfectly well with a single narrowband after the Y piece, but for tuning the high load areas a narrowband won't really help you.

Wideband sensors (5+ wires) need a separate controller to drive them, and you need to set MS up to expect their output - controllers can usually be set up a number of ways; to pretend to be a narrowband sensor (0-1v) but with perfect linearity to give accurate AFR readings, or to give a linear 0-5v scale reading, or some other range, it's important you match the controller config to the MS config (or vice-versa) otherwise you may be reading total nonsense.

With all of these the same rules apply - the sensor doesn't "know" if it's really rich or lean or if it's just seeing a misfire or exhaust leak so beware of blindly trusting your laptop.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Did the inaugral road test in it last weekend, engine playing nicely. some more tuning to do but driveable. brill!

The downside.... major graunching and noise coming from transmission, jumping out of hi/lo, generally very very unhappy.

Turns out my front diff has decided to destroy itself after 200 yards..... ffs.

Dont know how but the pinion is no longer supported by its bearings and is flopping about..... what on earth could cause this? only thing i can think of is that ive got different ring gears front to rear (they were built from bits to hand). ever had this?

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10 hours ago, mikeh501 said:

Dont know how but the pinion is no longer supported by its bearings and is flopping about..... what on earth could cause this? only thing i can think of is that ive got different ring gears front to rear (they were built from bits to hand). ever had this?

Q1 are they the same ratio?
Q2 were the pinions matched to the crownwheels? its not a massive issue but it certainly helps as they are made as a matching set

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My guess is that they are not matches front to rear but need to pull the rear out and start counting teeth! Front ring gear is toast now so that needs redoing anyway. The pinions were blue'd and aligned with the ring gears etc when built. I believe all pinions are 8 teeth?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well its all fixed, got a new R&P from nigel and its in fine fettle. Another major update is that ive got a MOT on it!!! its now on the road and doneish :)

Quick one, im getting a really noticeable induction hiss coming from my air filter when applying throttle. Im wondering if that noise means it restrictive? surely it wouldnt produce a noise if the air wasnt being 'compressed'. The setup is a 80mm right angle silicone hose, then the MAF which is again about 80mm and then into a 80mm fairly substantial cone filter. Hardly restrictive but wondering if all these cone filters arent made equal. Its a ramair one off ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352080751139

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More noise is just because you have no air box :)

Induction roar is probably greatest with individual throttle bodies, which are definitely the loudest ;)

Induction is a series of pulses, not just some continuous suck like a hoover, so is always turbulent, hence noisy :)

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Apols meant MAT, not MAF.

I did a decent run yesterday and im now seeing sensible lambda readings (i.e. either lean or rich kinda binary which is what im expecting on a narrow band id think)  and ive enabled 0.3ms accel enrich and it seems happier between gears when on/off throttle. I think its running lean up the revs/throttle openings now. My intent is to richen up the VE buckets and keep trying it, and only then enable the o2 correction once its nearly there. Assume this is a good strategy? or should I enable o2 correction say @ 10% and then change the VE buckets to remove the o2 correction in the log.

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Getting the table as close as you can before enabling O2 correction is a reasonable idea, with NB the ECU can only correct "cruise" conditions not full-throttle / high RPM so be careful how you set the O2 correction parameters.

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Thanks for the help guys. Did some proper miles and tuning this weekend. drive a few miles, logging, review log, tweak, drive, log, tweak. seemed to go well. Plenty of go in it now and picks up cleanly. its very nearly 'right'. 

 

The problem I need some advice on. I had a bit of clutch slip with it a couple of weeks ago in 3rd under power which got me worried. Ive since adjusted the master cyliner rod adjuster which was at the very end of its adjustment (nut at end of rod). I wound it back about 1mm and no longer slipping. Now im finding getting into gear can be hit or miss, especially low speed into 1st and reverse. Essentially it feels like the clutch is dragging. It was like this before but slightly better.

2 things...

Im thinking the clutch slave rod might be the wrong length? what is the proper length for a r380 v8 rod?

Second, I bought a basic/cheapo v8 efI clutch (AP) when i built it. I might whilst the box is out swop it for one from clutchfix or LOFclutches. Which is best? any recommendations?

 

 

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I fitted a LOF slave cylinder to the 109 and am mightily impressed with it.

For the actual clutch assembly I've always stuck with AP/B&B and never had an issue. I'd fit a metal (not plastic) release bearing while you're doing it too.

However, before doing major surgery, check the basics - not worth replacing the entire setup if you can fix it by bleeding it.

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