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New front Diff options - 2006 TD5

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I know that, I am on about mixing up the material (bronze and steel, cited above).

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2 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

I may be muddling Soren with someone else, but I know Ashcroft sent some of these washers out (I thought they were bronze, perhaps I am mixing up with the LT230).

Calling @Soren Frimodt!

Yes indeed, the spring washers have a tendency to go flat, Ashcroft send me new ones FOC as well which is good service, but I must say it soon got weak again, I did drive the car to work and back everyday though (about 90km in all)

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Ta, Soren, glad I am not going mad :)

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On 2/10/2020 at 4:45 PM, Soren Frimodt said:

Yes indeed, the spring washers have a tendency to go flat, Ashcroft send me new ones FOC as well which is good service, but I must say it soon got weak again, I did drive the car to work and back everyday though (about 90km in all)

So what is the effect of these spring washers going flat? Does it lose the ATB effect? Lose the preload that gives some drive when one wheel is airborne? Or something else?

Mine are fitted in the 300Tdi 110 which does low mileage anyway, so it may not be an issue. I have not done a lot with them but the difference in normal off road use is very noticeable to standard open diffs. In places where you'd scrabble and spin a bit, it just goes up with no fuss. Good long trip coming up on the weekend which will be interesting.

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I’d be interested to know, too.  My understanding was exactly the same - that they give preload so you don’t need to trigger them with the left foot braking when one wheel looses all traction, but it’d be good to know if that’s right - I could live with that if need be, but don’t want a product that frequently needs rebuilding.

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Yes guys thats exactly what they do, the greater the preload, the easier traction is given to the wheel spinning. So basically it changes the way it behaves and needs to be driven as the spring washers go flat. There are no bad side effects or stuff failing or getting worn or anything. It simply changes the character, and not by much. Anyway I did consider (vapour builds you know) to use one of the halfshafts as preload so I could just remove a gasket when needed to regain preload 😁

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Just been digging around the internet.  I have come across dozens of people complaining about Trutrac failures, with the side gears floating, worm gears chewing up the casing, the teeth of the worm gears having their surface spalling, a lot of chattering, the casing bolts coming undone and a few disintegrations.  Not encouraging, but I mentioned it before that I’d heard concerns over their quality since they shipped manufacture to Taiwan.  Most of those are from Camaro and Mustang owners.  No mention about preload washers on those forums, and none visible in the photos, but I think Nige explained once that the Trutracs have thrust washers on one side, while Ashcroft have them on both, which is why Trutracs are sold specified for front or rear while Ashcroft can be fit in either axle.  The off-roader forums, mostly Jeeps, say they’re very pleased with the Trutracs with no reported faults, but quite a few comments about needing the left foot braking, suggesting no significant preload.

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I know people that have run TTs for 30 years in Defenders.  Never seen a failure or loss of performance. Bought and installed used ones.  No signs of wear when disassembled.  I'm sure they are stronger than any halfshafts you can get.

In the Rover style of TT, there are coned washers between the thrust bearings.  They have thrust bearings in the center between the side gears that are locked to the casing.  The springs push the side gears out to the casing.  The casing sides do not have thrust bearings.  The idea of direction is to have the thrust force when driving forward to the center.

https://discoweb.org/oldsite/truetracgears/index.htm

It is beyond me how Ashcroft could have messed up the design of springs (Belleville washers).  Everything you need to know about sizing them has been known a lot longer than any of us have been around.

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That’s a good link. 
 

Like I said, I didn’t find any complaints about TTs from off-roaders, save one who didn’t understand how they work.  It’s quite possible that the sports car owners, using them mostly for “launches” (drag racing, I presume) are over stressing them with them being smaller units behind more powerful engines, but there were a lot of complaints about chattering and side gear play even on new units.  The bigger units LRs use may be stronger and better made.

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9 hours ago, Snagger said:

but there were a lot of complaints about chattering and side gear play even on new units.  The bigger units LRs use may be stronger and better made.

Could just be that LR's are so agricultural no-one notices :rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Could just be that LR's are so agricultural no-one notices :rolleyes:

No.  They make no noise.  They have no play. They are preloaded. You can tell they are there as the self centering increases under power and they pull slightly if one tire is lower pressure than the other.

 

13 hours ago, Snagger said:

...but there were a lot of complaints about chattering and side gear play even on new units.  The bigger units LRs use may be stronger and better made.

Really sounds like they are not talking about TTs, but normal plate type LSDs. I also have friends with Wranglers that run them.  No noise, no play.

Detroits have some play and you can hear them click if you listen.

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On 2/10/2020 at 3:51 PM, Bowie69 said:

 

I was sure Soren had a failure of the bronze shims in one of his ATBs, but can't seem to find it.

 

No bronze shims in Ashcroft ATBs or Quaifes ???

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On 2/13/2020 at 8:51 PM, Red90 said:

No.  They make no noise.  They have no play. They are preloaded. You can tell they are there as the self centering increases under power and they pull slightly if one tire is lower pressure than the other.

 

Really sounds like they are not talking about TTs, but normal plate type LSDs. I also have friends with Wranglers that run them.  No noise, no play.

Detroits have some play and you can hear them click if you listen.

It sounds that way, but the photos some had posted of damaged parts were definitely TTs.  Do a google search for Trutrac faults and you’ll get a lot of results, but they all seem to be muscle car owners.  The Trutrac nomenclature does recommend them for the application, so they should be up to it.

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