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Sore about SORN


cackshifter
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Hi, I have a 110 CSW which is just undergoing a floor replacement - well to be honest it has been for quite a while, scope creep being what it is. It's parked on the drive of our house, but there is no front wall so it is easily visible from the road, but well beyond the pavement, ie on my land. There is currently no floor in it, no battery, the B posts are in tatters, and the new C posts are held to the floor rails with mole grips, pending an improvement in weather to move things on. It is of couse SORNed.

The problem is we have just had a letter from the DVLA alleging it has been used or kept on the road, and I have till 3rd March to pay them £559 or go to court.  That is a ridiculous accusation considering its current state, and it hasn't even moved for over a year. We will be contesting that fine needless to say, but I suspect it has to be either the result of a camera car picking up the number plate, or a malicious anonymous report being made ( I am not aware of any issues with neighbours, not yet anyway). Either way,  my point is that if anyone else is in this position of having a vehicle SORNed, maybe undergoing repair within sight of the road,  to avoid similar issues,  I would suggest you remove the number plates.

(Mods, if this isn't the right place for this feel free to move it)

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1 hour ago, cackshifter said:

Hi, you may be right about the cloning, but the letter states it was in our street, last Saturday, at 10.35am, so I am thinking some of it at least is fiction.

Probably an ANPR camera on a cop car or similar then, I'd demand to see the evidence.

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Sorn doesn't need renewing these days. The letter even says it's sorned. Yes, we are going for evidence, but since posting one of the neighbours has dug out some CCTV footage, which I hope will be reasonably definitive. It's just who wants the hassle? They will need to do some serious grovelling if I get my way.

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A few years ago I had a similar issue with ex neighbours. They reported to the council that I was running a car repair business from home. Man turned up one day with a notebook and camera. Took notes and photos before knocking and challenging me, going on about how it was against the law ? and how I may be fined, liable for VAT, blah blah blah.

Told him that if he bothered to check, he would find that all the vehicles were registered in my name, and had been for some time, and that the complainant had an axe to grind, and was wasting his time. Should have seen his little face light down ! Shut his notebook and went, and I never heard any more about it.

All this started because I declined to weld up his rusty Sierra.

Good idea about removing the number plates though, and in the light of this, it might be an idea to take some photos and post them somewhere as proof.

I don't imagine for a minute there will be any grovelling. You will be lucky to even get an apology.  

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As a fellow motor enthusiast and tax payer, it makes me so mad to hear things like this that it is extremely difficult for me to moderate my own language to stay within forum rules. I will try nonetheless! 

In my opinion it's lazy policing in the extreme. It's a good and sensible suggestion above to remove numberplates to prevent this Tom foolery, but why the hell should an honest person have to do this when the car is legally parked on your own ground?! If they actually bothered to get off their backsides and check some very basic facts and ask some simple questions once your vehicle had been flagged for whatever reason and saw your vehicle in an obviously unable to drive condition it would stop them wasting yours and their time. But oh no, "just send him a letter, he must be guilty if our computer has flagged the numberplate". 

If they do have reason to believe someone is using a car they should be able to provide solid photographic evidence rather (God knows there's enough cameras stuck all over the place) than relying on ANPR from a passing car or one or two nosey neighbors.

There. *%#!ing rant over! :angry2: I'm now going to have a nice relaxing cup of tea to calm the *#%! down. 

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6 hours ago, monkie said:

As a fellow motor enthusiast and tax payer, it makes me so mad to hear things like this that it is extremely difficult for me to moderate my own language to stay within forum rules. I will try nonetheless! 

In my opinion it's lazy policing in the extreme. It's a good and sensible suggestion above to remove numberplates to prevent this Tom foolery, but why the hell should an honest person have to do this when the car is legally parked on your own ground?! If they actually bothered to get off their backsides and check some very basic facts and ask some simple questions once your vehicle had been flagged for whatever reason and saw your vehicle in an obviously unable to drive condition it would stop them wasting yours and their time. But oh no, "just send him a letter, he must be guilty if our computer has flagged the numberplate". 

If they do have reason to believe someone is using a car they should be able to provide solid photographic evidence rather (God knows there's enough cameras stuck all over the place) than relying on ANPR from a passing car or one or two nosey neighbors.

There. *%#!ing rant over! :angry2: I'm now going to have a nice relaxing cup of tea to calm the *#%! down. 

Equally though - I’m not a fan of the amount of vehicles driving around that are paying no car tax and insurance (1 in 8 vehicles in the worst areas).
 

If they’re increasing cameras cars to catch these, as per their current Tv and radio ad campaigns, then personally I think that’s a good thing. Unfortunately, it seems their software needs updating, however, you can understand why they check cars on driveways too, as it’s likely in most cases these vehicles would be in use.

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I agree with you entirely about those who deliberately don't pay but still use the road, it isn't fair on the rest of us who do the right thing. That said though the case described here does not fall into this category and is a great illustration that any potential case picked up by whatever means should be properly investigated and checked to make sure it isn't an administrative cock up or as in this case an error before any accusations are made to an innocent motorist.

Or as an alternative, get rid of the current UK road tax system as it is and add a small additional charge to fuel, that way the more you use the more you contribute (or vice versa for those of us who have a land rover for occasional use) and it removes the need for checking. Although I can't see that happening as we like to make things complicated. 

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Chances are if this was picked up by a mobile camera the officer may not be aware that the on board computer has picked it up and likely care even less!?! as this (incorrect) evidence will be handled by someone else in another department, who will just push a enter on their keyboard and an automated letter will be generated and posted out!?! The individuals involved in the procedure neither know nor care if it is a valid offence so long as their pay cheque hits the bank on the right day!

Sadly the times we are living in, seems more and more like the innocent have to keep proving that they ARE innocent whilst scum just go around with a catch me if you can attitude!!!

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Over here the rule is this,  when sorned... it needs to be off the public road and can't even stand on a open driveway. It needs to be closed off.  A chain would be enough though.  

I live in the Netherlands .  

When on the drive, i would take the numberplates off.

Edited by Wytze
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I'd imagine as said it's an entirely automated process generated from a camera van. 

You can't/shouldn't pay the fine as you haven't commited the offence,  so you need to wait for summons papers to appear which will have a section for you to state your case and return it. It will then be looked at by a person, usually a dvla employee, and should get cancelled.  The photo is thier evidence, so if it shows your car parked on private ground they can't proceed. 

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Bit of an update. The neighbour realised the CCTV clock was an hour out, so we now have a pic of the DVLA van parked in the road. So as we hadn't heard anything Friday my wife rang them to be told it would take them at least 4 weeks to look at the picture! Whatever picture they took from where the van was should make it obvious the 110 is on our land.

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I don’t see how that matters. It’s not like they have taken the money and now you have to get it back.  It’s pretty normal to have a process that normally works run quickly and the process to correct mistakes takes longer.

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1 minute ago, mad_pete said:

I don’t see how that matters. It’s not like they have taken the money and now you have to get it back.  It’s pretty normal to have a process that normally works run quickly and the process to correct mistakes takes longer.

It’s the hypocrisy of it 

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1 hour ago, mad_pete said:

I don’t see how that matters. It’s not like they have taken the money and now you have to get it back.  It’s pretty normal to have a process that normally works run quickly and the process to correct mistakes takes longer.

It's the fact that it causes stress and worry to some people especially the old and vulnerable (not in this case, he's too OLD to care!), due to not knowing what the outcome/result will be?

With so called modern technology it should be as easy to rectify the problem as it is to generate one, should be that is!?!

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Typically you automate the main system and then the problem resolution process requires manual oversight and therefore takes longer. Granted it could go quicker and if that 4 weeks is a problem why not mail the DVLA and your MP with your concerns?

Is there a case that the fines are the money and correcting mistakes isn’t, sure I could get on board with that. 

However I don’t see how not sending the letter for 4 weeks because the problem resolution may take 4 weeks helps anything.

Because the letter was quick poster was able to get cctv to back his case that’s more difficult after a month. 

Do we want to be paying £5 more vehicle  tax for a  streamline mistake resolution system ? Not sure I do.


The system made a mistake, there is a mistake resolution process and you follow that to correct the mistakes. 

It’s going to be annoying to resolve, sure but it will resolve. 

if it somehow turns into a  mis carriage of justice I will chip in £20 for the fine.

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100%

You don't staff a process for a minority of customers the same way you would for 95% of others. Especially not when you have all of 50p and a workforce of three people as a resource for government departments these days. 

 

What does annoy me is that people think this is usually the police instigating these cases, when actually it is DVLA evidence gathering. The average copper has about as much interest in vehicle tax as most of us do in Love Island and this isn't another case of the innocent motorist being under attack.*

My sympathy to OP and I'm certain this will all get straightened out. 

 

 

*Those same "innocent" motorists driving without insurance at 40 in a 20 outside a school while on the phone also genuinely believe it's all about revenue collecting and not a direct consequence of their own actions, but let's not go down that metaphorical road.

Edited by ThreePointFive
I dun't rite gud
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Most of us can understand to some degree why the investigation and corrective procedures take so long. It's just being in limbo all that time, of not knowing the outcome?

When all you want is peace of mind. Not the but what if's running round your head thinking the worst case scenario.

Some people dont cope well when authorities of any kind are involved and making decisions regarding them personally. 

But sadly this is how the world works.

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