Sore about SORN

[mad_pete]

I’d be interested to see how long it takes. Often you have to publish worst case numbers that it can take but really most are done quicker and shouldn’t be too hard to get them on the cloud for people to check for mistakes on. It’s not like they have to pop to Boots to get copies made from the negatives and mail those 🙂

[Simon_CSK]

my brother is in the motor trade and he told me a story of him having 14 vehicles on private land being clampped by DVLA. Some were his and some where other traders. Either way the authorities were trying to hold them to ransom and wouldn't accept that they were on private land.

In the end my brother got tired of the argument and lack of progress so he cut the clamps off. They couldn't trace the owner of the vehicles as they were not registered to anyone and my brother got the scrap value for the clamps.

[cackshifter]

Hi, Well I regret to say we have had a response and not the one I expected. That is the 'evidence' supplied by DVLA, but despite that they are continue to demand money with menaces. I am just putting a reply together plus putting together a package for my MP.

 

[Peaklander]

Oh dear.

Is it showing that it is clearly parked on your drive (surface type, pebbles, colour, marks) or is the resolution so bad that you couldn't show that it is?

If it is shown to be on the drive, then they are unable to prove that it has been used. If the pic doesn't have the necessary resolution then I'd be asking why not, as their camera must be good enough to provide it.

[Mutley]

If that's the full extent of their picture/evidence then I would be replying....yep you're right that's my motor, NOW prove it's on a public highway!?!

[cackshifter]

I am just putting in a request for the original picture, uncropped, unaltered, full size, full colour, under GDPR

[cackshifter]

Here's the DVLA van taking the picture. The Defender is out of shot beyond the pavement to the left of the picture - they just come up the hill , turn round and go. The location they give suggests right by the van so proving it wasn't anywhere else. I think they have given us a very foggy copy, you can't see the change of surfaces.

 

[FridgeFreezer]

Surely a photo taken from that van in that end of the cul-de-sac the Defender couldn't physically be parked on the road and still have room for the van to turn round?

Regardless, if that photo is the best they've got I'd see them in court - there's chinese webcams take better pics than that!

[monkie]

The quality of that evidence makes this springs to mind... 

 

[mad_pete]

 

[Peaklander]

😀 saw that recently, on here maybe. It’s very funny and spot on. 

[Bowie69]

Who says they don't have a sense of humour

[mad_pete]

So I want to like the post about you putting a reply together and contacting you MP but I don’t want to seem I am liking the dvla have provided a rubbish photo and are being awkward.   I have provided a video of a success story with which you may wish to base your reply on :-).

[cackshifter]

Thank you for your support folks.  The picture they sent looks like a picture of a photocopy taken through a very mucky screen of something taken with a pinhole camera after a night out. Like I say folks, remove your number plates. Or maybe amend a few letters with some black tape, to be removed before going on the road. I love the vid but I doubt the DVLA will be quite so easy.

[Mutley]

I know it's worst case scenario, but if this goes to court surely they need better evidence to get a conviction!?!

[cackshifter]

Yes, A request for the full sized, uncropped, unaltered original full colour copy of the photograph, together with everything else they hold on that vehicle was made to DVLA under the GDPR today. That gives them 30 days from receipt to return everything they have on that vehicle.

[mad_pete]

Looks it’s not on the public highway, it’s on the moon:

[cackshifter]

And of course, if it does come to court, they will only be able to use material previously disclosed under the GDPR request.  Otherwise there will be some explaining to do

[cackshifter]

An update: DVLA has not responded to the GDPR request. We know they have it. We have given them a few extra days, and tomorrow will send them a reminder giving them another week. We are wanting to be ultra reasonable under the circumstances, but they haven't even acknowledged receipt of the request, and they received it well before the lockdown. But if they don't respond, a complaint goes to both them and the ICO.

[monkie]

I'm not 100% sure on this but I thought I heard somewhere that response to GDPR requests have been relaxed due to potential staffing difficulties because of coronavirus.

[smallfry]

SWMBOs son works for a Local Authority legal dept, and spends much of his time dealing with GDPR requests, and ATM the requests are acknowledged but not dealt with, because most of the team, plus archives are not available as the staff are furloughed.

So I am sure they will get round to it. Eventually.

 

[cackshifter]

Hmmm. Well I did a quick search and didn't find anything about delays being permissible. They had the request on 11th March, well before the lockdown and we haven't even had an acknowledgement. On the other hand the ICO's site has plenty of examples where they have compelled DVLA to respond. 

[Snagger]

There is no way that image could be said to have enough information to provide evidence the vehicle was on the road.  So, unless they can provide a far better image with identifiable reference features in it other than the car, they have no evidence to fine you.

The ANPR camera almost certainly triggered while the van was turning.  It’s for them to prove otherwise.

[cackshifter]

1 hour ago, Snagger said:

There is no way that image could be said to have enough information to provide evidence the vehicle was on the road.  So, unless they can provide a far better image with identifiable reference features in it other than the car, they have no evidence to fine you.

We actually showed it to someone who obviously has better sight than we have who said " they have shot themselves in the foot, you can see it's on concrete". I admit I can't make that out definitively - but the drive is concrete, the pavement and road are tarmac, so that would just confirm our case. Another problem is the costs are mounting up too. Because of the crisis, Royal Mail say signed for isn't signed for any longer, so we have to use Special Delivery at about £10 a pop, as we have to have evidence of receipt. I think we are up to 5 letters now.....

[cackshifter]

Well, I am just posting an update in case anyone is interested.

We have had no response from the DVLA to the GDPR request (SAR) for the photograph, and related stuff. The request should have been returned before the ICO published their relaxation of guidelines on returning information, so it should have at least been responded to within the  normal timescales; even so we allowed 2 weeks extra time and sent a reminder. So a complaint has been made to the ICO.

Meanwhile we also made a complaint to the DVLA, not about the alleged offence, but the lack of any response to the GDPR request.  We received no reply to that complaint within the time they promise on the web site to respond by, plus another week or so, so today a complaint has been made to the DVLA Chief Executive, in accordance with their published complaints procedure. In that letter we have also made a Freedom of Information request for a simple count of the number of items of post that have left the DVLA since the initial GDPR request  was received (we have receipts for all letters), as, yes, we have all had problems to varying degrees during the lockdown, but I don't accept they have been totally unable to at least acknowledge receipt of the request, and I suspect that will be presented ultimately as an excuse. 

As there are time limits imposed on the complaints procedures we have had to be careful to allow extra time, but not so much as to jeopardise the opportunity to take matters further.