De Ranged Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I think the parks thing is about stopping parents taking there kids there to play..... which will mean kids socailizing with other kids. Over here only the parks with play grounds have been closed There is now talk of what we are going to do after the lockdown and how risk is managed..... international travel hasn't been discussed yet, but the inferance in media is out borders will remain shut to general traffic.... so I've lost my job lol Drones would be very effective, I don't know why security firms arn't using them (possibly due to legal ambiguity)..... but the Police, that is dangerous ground.... that will add to the public paranoia, then there is the whole drones and privacy rights that hasn't been sorted out legally here yet, There are also talks of cellphone tracker apps to track interaction of people.... starting to see the civil rights concerns pop'ing up on social media, this is going to be tricky ground for the Govt and as good as our Primeminister is she has a habbit of blasing on in without the normal level of consultation.... our new Gun Control Laws after the Christchurch Shooting, were up and enforced within 2 weeks of proposal!....due to this it failed lol our lockdown is another 2 weeks in and we are still getting rules clarifications on the news.... I imagine next time lol the planning will be be better.... you got a hope! Personally I couldnt care less if some spotty faced little kid wants to track where I go lol they will get bored real fast..... hell they can even leave it up and running so next time we have a pandemic we have the tools to stop it quickly..... but the legal side of this for a Govt lol is way off the charts and is going to cause a huge backlash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 ....Skynet Yes that's my coat and 'bike but if you want it ... I'm number 7 really but don't tell anyone I know it's all very real and serious but a little lockdown laugh isn't such a bad thing Happy Easter one and all Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 The police have drones but they relatively expensive to fly I would think (trained handler required) You see someone having a bbq. Then you have to send a uniformed officer to tell them to stop anyway. We happily let Google and Apple know where we are all the time anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Regarding tracking movement, I’d cards etc etc , I’ve always thought that the only reason for someone to oppose them is because they have something to hide ............... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 No way I am having anything like that on me. It may be fine for the government that introduce them, but what if you end up with some sort of loon at the head of the next one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Well that’s the problem isn’t it , that’s why it’ll never happen , isn’t Boris a bit of a loon anyway ? Corbyn definitely is 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Why not chip and and tattoo barcodes on the arms of every newborn child and have the info available to every government official, then extend the scheme to all adults? After all if you have nothing to hide what is the problem? Yeah right, "Papiere, Bitte".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Yeah crack on 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I get the thing about if you haven't got anything to hide but I rather like living in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. How about if everytime you popped out to the shop and the police demanded to search your land rover for no other reason than they didn't like the look of you. With respect to Facebook. Imagine going back in time just 20 years and if someone suggested there would be a thing on the Internet where millions of people will volunteer to put all their personal details, photos of where they they are and what they are doing not to mention publicly slagging off their work colleagues for all to see. You'd probably be laughed out of the room! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I’m still down with the idea of ID cards and I totally get why others oppose the idea which is fair enough , each to their own , AND I totally understand that the major problem with such a system is a police force that gets out of control and we become a police state . So it won’t ever happen anyway. Back to the pandemic , New York State has it bad , more cases than any country (if you believe China’s figures , which I don’t ! Also countries like Belarus that claim they have no cases , their president claimed they don’t have it because you can’t see it flying around 🤪 talking of which Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) https://apple.news/AVEqhK084Tdqw-ulAoUt3Mg Mental does it open for anyone ? Edited April 12, 2020 by Ozzy50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Works for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 So you saw the “ very stable genius “ talking about the virus ?* It’s hilarious, how anybody can’t stand behind that idiot is beyond me 🤪 *(I only ask because I can’t open it for some reason ?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 hour ago, monkie said: With respect to Facebook. Imagine going back in time just 20 years and if someone suggested there would be a thing on the Internet where millions of people will volunteer to put all their personal details, photos of where they they are and what they are doing not to mention publicly slagging off their work colleagues for all to see. You'd probably be laughed out of the room! They were good times! I have thought we are heading down the skynet route for some time!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Ozzy50 said: Back to the pandemic , New York State has it bad , more cases than any country (if you believe China’s figures , which I don’t ! Also countries like Belarus that claim they have no cases , their president claimed they don’t have it because you can’t see it flying around This is a great example of why it's going to be really hard to compare one country against another. When China was suffering as we are now in the West there was no commercial test. They would have been using none standardised lab developed tests where they could if at all. The USA are doing a lot of testing using standardised tests. The data is only as good as the testing strategy. I would imagine the actual figures in China are way higher than reported but rather because of lack of testing facilities rather than some cover up. Edit: apart from examples like Belarus. That's just pure stupidity! Edited April 12, 2020 by monkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnoK Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 On 4/10/2020 at 8:39 PM, Bowie69 said: Ahem : https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-man-jailed-spitting-police-21781450 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/24/call-new-laws-thugs-weaponise-coronavirus-spitting-coughing/ Easy to fix... Allow the Police to react as per the guidelines for Assault with Intent and that will stop in its tracks. Nothing like a truncheon over the noggin and chrome bracelets to focus attention on the silliness of that idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Tazer and pepper spray is pretty harsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, monkie said: This is a great example of why it's going to be really hard to compare one country against another. When China was suffering as we are now in the West there was no commercial test. They would have been using none standardised lab developed tests where they could if at all. The USA are doing a lot of testing using standardised tests. The data is only as good as the testing strategy. I would imagine the actual figures in China are way higher than reported but rather because of lack of testing facilities rather than some cover up. Confirmed cases are not a useful number for any comparisons. Nobody has the ability to test everyone and most tests being used have high false negatives. Deaths are the best available comparison. That has limits as well as many countries are not testing everyone that dies, so under report deaths. But it is as good a comparison as is available. Currently the UK is following Italy's curve exactly. Belgium has the worst trend in the world. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-deaths-days-since-per-million?country=CAN+FRA+ITA+ESP+SWE+GBR+USA Edited April 12, 2020 by Red90 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I disagree, the more data you collect a clearer picture you will have of how the infection is spreading. If you are doing little testing to confirm cases how can you possibly analyse the progression of infection? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I can understand the need to test NHS staff frequently, but unless you have symptoms, surely it's like the MOT, it is only relevant at the moment of testing. A day later it might be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, monkie said: I disagree, the more data you collect a clearer picture you will have of how the infection is spreading. If you are doing little testing to confirm cases how can you possibly analyse the progression of infection? By the hospitals. The infection is too wide spread to control through contact tracing. The only solution at this point is isolation to reduce the spread rate. Contact tracing is only useful when there is no community spread. As above you want to continue to test essential workers and contact trace them as they can't isolate. For this disease, testing can never contain. Even with the best tests, false negatives are very high. Edited April 12, 2020 by Red90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 9 hours ago, Ozzy50 said: Regarding tracking movement, I’d cards etc etc , I’ve always thought that the only reason for someone to oppose them is because they have something to hide ............... There are valid (and legal) reasons why people don't necessarily want to be tracked by companies. There are people, quite a lot of those protecting their respective countries, where phones are turned off well before they get near their place of work. Ironically that in itself gives away some stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Red90 said: By the hospitals. The infection is too wide spread to control through contact tracing. The only solution at this point is isolation to reduce the spread rate. Contact tracing is only useful when there is no community spread. As above you want to continue to test essential workers and contact trace them as they can't isolate. For this disease, testing can never contain. Even with the best tests, false negatives are very high Sorry Red to contradict you here but I'm not sure where you are getting that information from. That last part about false negatives simply isn't true. I have a degree in this very area and work for a very large molecular diagnostics company who are providing one of the commercial PCR tests for Covid. Let me explain why it isn't true: A false negative is when a patient sample which is actually positive is falsely reported as negative by a test because something has gone wrong within the test for that sample. False negatives on the commercial PCR tests are almost impossible because of an internal control. An internal control is integral to each test in addition to a positive target control being run on each sample batch to demonstrate the covid target can be detected. A false negative result would be caused by a problem with the test reagents or most likely an inhibitory substance within the sample caused by poor nucleic acid extraction. This inhibitor would shut down the reaction in the individual test. Each test result that is negative has to be validated by the internal control being valid to prove the test has worked. If both the target and the control are negative, the test is automatically flagged as invalid and no result is given. This is part of the requirement for FDA approval which our test and others being used have. The main worry with PCR tests compared to other types of testing is actually the opposite: false positives. That's because PCR is an incredibly sensitive technique. However this effect is eliminated with modern tests by using additives in the test (UDG if you would like to look it up) that destroy amplified material from previous positive tests which could contaminate other tests. This again must be demonstrated in each batch of tests run by running a negative control to prove no contamination is present. So for a negative result to be valid and reportes as such 3 things must all be true: the internal control must be positive, the positive control must be positive and the negative control must be negative. If any one or more is not true the instrument will not release the result. Simple. The tests in the UK at least are mainly being done on inpatients with clinical symptoms to build a picture of what is happening in hospitals. I do this for a living. I don't claim to be an expert, but I do speak to and work alongside experts every working day. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 @monkie, I presume those tests are different to the antibody tests, which I believe have been described as giving a lot of false positives? I agree the clinical-administered stuff in hospitals must be accurate, just by the way they work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: @monkie, I presume those tests are different to the antibody tests, which I believe have been described as giving a lot of false positives? I agree the clinical-administered stuff in hospitals must be accurate, just by the way they work. Yes you are correct. It is PCR tests being used across the world to diagnose Covid. Antibody tests are to see who has had the virus but recovered. The poor tests were the rapid tests to do at home, not lab based tests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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