Mutley Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 Thanks guys another lesson in the LR Classroom completed. Every day on here is an education! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 There is a 'dowel' bolt according to the parts manual, but I can't say I've ever actually seen one in all the axles I've taken apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 2 hours ago, landroversforever said: Eh? On a coiler the castor angle is set by the PCD with unequally spaced bolts at the bottom. Quoting myself, I think there is one exception, I believe the really early RRC had the 6 bolt pattern like the series ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Hi all. When changing diff on a 4-post ramp, I tend to leave the wheels on and undo the swivel. The swivel and wheel balance quite well and are ok easy to extract the 30mm or so, and the diff han be removed. Last time I changed swivels (to "new" old ones), I found that when all the bolts were done almost up, there were quite some slag in the holes still, so a bit of castercorrection can be done here. (I put them "in the middle") 🙂 /Mads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 5 hours ago, landroversforever said: Eh? On a coiler the castor angle is set by the PCD with unequally spaced bolts at the bottom. As I said...most people clearly do not realize one bolt is different than the others.... The castor is set by the inclination of the swivel housing. One of the seven bolts that hold that swivel ball to the axle is a dowel bolt. It is a machined fit to the hole in the swivel ball. This sets the angular alignment of the swivel balls precisely to the axle housing. If you miss it, the alignment of can be off be a couple of degrees. All Land Rover axles have used a dowel bolt for this alignment since day one. If you mix them up and both dowel bolts go into one side, the other side can be a few degrees different and cause very weird road manners. See item 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Retroanaconda said: There is a 'dowel' bolt according to the parts manual, but I can't say I've ever actually seen one in all the axles I've taken apart. They all have one. Guaranteed. You need to look carefully at them to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Just to add for info. Early RRC had six bolts similar to Series leaf axles but set 90 deg so as not to be confused, not the newer seven a shown. Either way the swivel bolts on a vertical axis with the axle, the axle location taking care of the castor. Still no dowel bolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Series has 6 bolts, one is longer to account for the lock stop, but all are the same diameter, part threaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 So this DOWEL bolt if you find it, get one, WHICH bolt hole does it go in, or does it not matter so long as you fit it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 If it's a dowel, doesn't matter, as the swivel is a tight fit in the axle. Once the dowel is in, the castor would be fixed. I think that all the bolts are dowels, to be honest, tight in the holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Yes, any bolt hole is fine. I like to put it in first. That makes putting in the regular ones easier. They are not all dowels.The other six are a very loose fit in the holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Which is the dowel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I presume it’s the one on the right. I’ve been reading this with interest, trying to remember if I mixed up mine. Probably not as I tend to hold things either side of the vehicle when removing. Thinking about how it actually fixes the castor in the correct position, I’m assuming that it determines the exact rotational position of the swivel, whereas a slightly looser bolt would allow a little variability in that position as it is tightened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 Put new seals and retaining ring on a couple of years ago. Now not sure if i HAVE mixed them up or NOT!?! Usually i work one side sort that out then move to the other side and work..... But cannot for the life of me remember, all i can remember is doing a near full axle strip and rebuild!?! So for peace of mind this time round will order x2 Dowel bolts and x12 of the other, then paint the top of the Dowel bolt so i know which one it is in future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 If it's the one on the right, is it long enough to engage with both the axle and the swivel? And I'd like to put a calipers on both, see the difference in diameter. It looks marginally wider. Interesting topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 IMO I reckon they stopped bothering with them. I've only ever seen them with all the bolts the same. Would be interesting to see a more recent parts manual to see if they're still mentioned I did some googling yesterday and most seemed to supersede to the normal bolts. The only way you'd get a proper location was if there was a dowel between the parts, or a proper shoulder bolt which locates in both items in a machined hole. Would be interesting to stick a DTI on the swivel with all normal bolts in and see how much movement there actually is. With the decent proper bolts in there I reckon there will be minimal movement as the shank is a greater size than one threaded all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, landroversforever said: IMO I reckon they stopped bothering with them. I've only ever seen them with all the bolts the same. Would be interesting to see a more recent parts manual to see if they're still mentioned I did some googling yesterday and most seemed to supersede to the normal bolts. The only way you'd get a proper location was if there was a dowel between the parts, or a proper shoulder bolt which locates in both items in a machined hole. Would be interesting to stick a DTI on the swivel with all normal bolts in and see how much movement there actually is. With the decent proper bolts in there I reckon there will be minimal movement as the shank is a greater size than one threaded all the way. I think you might be right. I can't recall when I was doing the lightweight as to how much play there was. I think there was none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Gazzar said: If it's the one on the right, is it long enough to engage with both the axle and the swivel? And I'd like to put a calipers on both, see the difference in diameter. It looks marginally wider. Interesting topic. Yes, the one on the right, with the much larger diameter shoulder. Yes, it is long enough. They are the exact same length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, landroversforever said: IMO I reckon they stopped bothering with them. I've only ever seen them with all the bolts the same. Would be interesting to see a more recent parts manual to see if they're still mentioned I did some googling yesterday and most seemed to supersede to the normal bolts. The only way you'd get a proper location was if there was a dowel between the parts, or a proper shoulder bolt which locates in both items in a machined hole. Would be interesting to stick a DTI on the swivel with all normal bolts in and see how much movement there actually is. With the decent proper bolts in there I reckon there will be minimal movement as the shank is a greater size than one threaded all the way. Here is the Microcat page. UYG500040 is the dowel bolt. It IS a proper shoulder bolt into a machined hole. UYG500050 are the other bolts. Edited March 25, 2020 by Red90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Yes, but what age is that looking at? If it’s the same as the previous parts manual picture then it proves nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Must admit I am struggling to see how thtis does anything. I can see that it will only fit in one hole in the ball flange but if it is the same thread length and dia as a standard bolt and given that the axle flanges on a coiler are threaded (no nut) then it can still screw in to any axle flange position. As the bolt head type is a double hex this is newer than any axle I have worked on so never seen one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 If it’s a slightly bigger diameter then it can make the position of any of the bolt holes that little bit more precise. IE set the rotation of the swivel (which on a coiler can only fit in one place). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, missingsid said: Must admit I am struggling to see how thtis does anything. I can see that it will only fit in one hole in the ball flange but if it is the same thread length and dia as a standard bolt and given that the axle flanges on a coiler are threaded (no nut) then it can still screw in to any axle flange position. As the bolt head type is a double hex this is newer than any axle I have worked on so never seen one. The area above the threads is shouldered (bigger diameter than the threads). You can see it in my picture. This is a snug fit to the machined holes in the swivel ball. The other bolts have a shoulder that is loose in the swivel ball hole allowing them to be easily screwed in once the dowel bolt is placed. The shouldered bolt precisely sets the angular alignment between the axle housing and the swivel. This ensures that the castor angle is correct and the same on both sides. Edited March 25, 2020 by Red90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 22 minutes ago, landroversforever said: Yes, but what age is that looking at? If it’s the same as the previous parts manual picture then it proves nothing. All models from 2008 (8A) on as shown in the photo. The earlier manual shown was the 1994 catalog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 It's quite possible they're there on all the ones I've taken apart but I've not noticed. Next time I've got mine in bits (likely to be soon as the railko bush is getting a bit loose) I'll see what I've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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