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changing cam bearings


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hi all finally got a chance to get the engine out of my defender 200 tdi and get it stripped down and it was as suspected the end cam bearing moving backwards causing the low oil pressure , i would really like to change the bearings myself but dont think i could manage it without the proper tools , or could i ? im all ears, but if not im looking for reccomendations in the teesside area of a workshop/garage  that could do it for me if anyone  has any ideas id really appreciate it 

                                                                                                                                                                                            thanks vinnie 

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https://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/90519054-5-camshaft-bearing-set-pre-finished-c2x20823022

see the Note in text Must be line reamed after fitting & to suit the camshaft.

Not a job you can do at home without the proper kit I would say,

During my 200TDi rebuild I had these bearings replaced & supplied a new camshaft for the engineering place to measure.

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"it is recommended" is different from "it is necessary"

the ground bore in the engine block is allready reamed and bearing shells are extremely identical. If built in shells will be reamed you will remove the important top layer from the shell

To make it clear, I never did exactly this, but this is my knowledge from general engineering

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really appreciate the responses lads but i will be letting a local expert change them for me as soon as i find one , i think that will be the best way forward without having the proper tool , but i will say i actually bought a block with cam and crank still in it with the intention of building that one up  but once i got it home it wasnt as good as i thought it was , it actually looks like the oil has boiled inside and the whole internals looks like it has been plastic coated  i have photos which i will try to upload just to see if anyone thinks the same , but i did strip that one down and the camshaft out of my original engine went in that block i bought and it turned freely , both 11l blocks 

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I found a nice pic in the thread mentioned above. Be sure, that reaming of new cam bearings does not result in something like that! This is how bearings look like, when the top layer is gone. I'd only ream, if a new camshaft turns really strong. In my eyes this is what they do at Turner.

WP_20170930_11_29_35_Pro.jpg.a0b6ae2785f

 

Edited by western
That's from my 200tdi rebuild thread
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ye ive looked at your rebuild pics quite often western theyll be great to use as a reference when i get round to putting my own back together ,and it looks absolutely amazing , but i do understand what your saying sigi-h that you couldnt afford to take too much off the shell faces when refitting the cam as once down to the copper lining the shell would be U/S wouldnt it , i thought the reason for having them fitted profesionaly was to ensure they are all square with each other in the journals . i did get in touch with a garage who said he could fit the shells but they would have to be pre sized as he cant line bore them , i only have a limited budget so are tempted to buy turners shells and let him fit them and hope its a nice fit , and whats most annoying is you can go through all this work and expense and once your back up and running whats to say that shell wont move again ,scary for me , but hey ho its a great forum and i love landys and with the members help im sure ill get there in the end cheers for now

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On 4/7/2020 at 9:09 PM, vinnie mc said:

ye ive looked at your rebuild pics quite often western theyll be great to use as a reference when i get round to putting my own back together ,and it looks absolutely amazing , but i do understand what your saying sigi-h that you couldnt afford to take too much off the shell faces when refitting the cam as once down to the copper lining the shell would be U/S wouldnt it , i thought the reason for having them fitted profesionaly was to ensure they are all square with each other in the journals . i did get in touch with a garage who said he could fit the shells but they would have to be pre sized as he cant line bore them , i only have a limited budget so are tempted to buy turners shells and let him fit them and hope its a nice fit , and whats most annoying is you can go through all this work and expense and once your back up and running whats to say that shell wont move again ,scary for me , but hey ho its a great forum and i love landys and with the members help im sure ill get there in the end cheers for now

 

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There wasn't any movement evident on my 200tdi's cam bearings,after 370,000 miles & 24 years, not sure if its a common problem,

if the new bearings are correctly fitted & the oil holes line up it should last another 20 plus years.

clean those pistons below the rings & around the sides, 3 of mine had curved hairline cracks on one side, you can see the crack inthis piston between the 2 redlines curving upwards

WP_20171031_12_27_33_Pro.jpg

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yes its strange why all of a sudden that last bearing moves backwards the other 3 are fine , its the original engine and has done 152,000 miles its a 94 L reg and must be one of the last original 11L engines and was a really great runner , but then the oil light started flickering and after doing all the obvious stuff i took the little inspection plate off the side of the block where you can see that last cam bearing , and there it was it had moved back about 10 mm , someone has suggested that the natural rotation of the cam means it will only ever have a force moving forward so its hard to fathom out how that bearing can move backwards ,  the only thing i think could happen is that the cam gets too much end float movement and maybe starts rebounding from that natural forward movement very slightly backwards . the pics i have put on are of a block i bought hoping to swap all my bits on and build up but as you can see it looks to me like its boiled the oil and stuck on to everything so i was wondering how to clean it if anyone has any suggestions cheers

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It seems not to be uncommon, that cam bearings travel. In my eyes it fits to the picture of the pistons. They sign that bad oil was used for a long time. If this is true, its possible, that cam bearings get worn as well and oscillations of the cam shaft becomes the result. This (the vibrating end of the shaft) can cause the bearing shell to travel and lead to lower oil pressure, than worn bearings produce it anyway

@western
Are you sure, that this is a crack? Looks like a normal wear sign of an old pistons. It indicates the contact face of a tilting piston in a cylinder

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ye thanks i will be checking everything before i put it all back together , but the pics i have put on of the crank and pistons are from the spare block i bought , theyre not from my engine , i have all my bits wrapped up ready to go back on once the new cam shells are back in 

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3 hours ago, Sigi_H said:

 

@western
Are you sure, that this is a crack? Looks like a normal wear sign of an old pistons. It indicates the contact face of a tilting piston in a cylinder

Yes definitely cracked, can feel it with finger nail, pistons 1,2,3 all had the same crack, these pistons were scrapped, I had the block bored out to 020 oversize with new pistons & rings, I wasn't going to risk trashing a rebuilt engine. 

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Totally standard engine, 24 years olds with in 370,000 miles, never taken to max revs, or overheated so sometimes things just give up. 

All 4 of the original pistons are no longer in use, they were scrapped & replaced with new items to suit the oversize rebored cylinders. 

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  • 2 months later...

Sorry for the delay but I have managed to pull the shells in and fitted the camshaft back in and all turns ok , I made a drawing of a tool (pictured) I wanted making to a friend who is a turner and thankfully it worked , well it's in and turning the real test will be when I run it , fingers crossed lol , but thanks for all the advice and I'll get back to putting it back together when I can IMG_2672.thumb.JPG.bcf5aefa325585f1d0ae8fb0ddc6cd55.JPG

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That is interesting! One of the reasons I've avoided getting blocks chemicals cleaned is it means the cam bearings will have to be redone.

But, if it's just a replace, and not line bore, that's much easier.

Interesting!

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The 'must be line bored' scenario isn't quite true. Turns out they can be done in situ as long as there isn't to much cam wear. As the cam simply doesn't wear....

However it is recommended to us loctite to hold the cam bearing in 

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After seeing this topic the other day  I did a little reading on the topic too, it looks like that certain cam bearings are designed to be "line bored" in situ - i.e. they have excess grey bearing material to take into account a light skim from the boring process. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
19 hours ago, vinnie mc said:

i got the bearings from turners and they are advertised as pre finished but say they might need to be line bored  but thankfully they were fine 

Have you got the engine back running again?

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