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Landrover17H

Rivnuts / Nutserts into an S3 Bulkhead door-stay

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Posted (edited)

Rivnuts / Nutserts into an S3 Bulkhead door-stay

Pretty sure that ex-factory an S3 bulkhead leaves with 3 x captive-nuts each side [in 'A' Pillar] for the door-stay. I've a galved bulkhead, and it appears M6 rivnuts have been used. Only they were 'monkeyed' in, and have fallen out. We need M7 for a tight fit, 'cost M8 is too big and M6 too small. But M7 rivnuts don't exist.  I've looked at SAE/Imperial size rivnuts and they don't come up any different. Either too big or too small.

I don't want to enlarge the holes in my 'luvverly' bulkhead, it'll mess the galving. I see Land rover make an M6 to a spec...

LANDROVER LR038192 M6 x 30mm CAPTIVE RIVNUT

Are these made for this job?

 

 

LANDROVER LR038192 M6 x 30mm CAPTIVE RIVNU.png

Edited by Landrover17H

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Have you tried getting your hand up behind the plate from under the bonnet?  I think you may be able to put nuts on - or alternatively make up a plate from 6mm steel to cover all 3 holes, tap it M6 or something and use that.

I repair these things - but the last few I've done have been S2's and I can't remember the detail of a S3 one.

 

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Those LR ones look horrible, look for decent quality ones with the large flange, a lot safer / less likely to spin or pull through.

rivnut.jpeg.a7fba3934b1d80a99e57423de097e378.jpeg

There's also ones that expand a lot more, like cavity wall fixings, so those might be an option for your enlarged holes.

rivthing.jpeg.d80c420d4efc0f7187fa56944698d48f.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

Jeremy, not seen an S2 lately but nuts from the back on an S3 can't happen. I'm looking to wall fixing. FF shows an M6 M8 type which won't expand enough. A PlusNut might go - see below - what we want is M7 but as far as I know there's no such animal.

PlusNut.png

Edited by Landrover17H

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Posted (edited)

I've not really found a solution to this, and I've done near a day looking. I suspect a M6 Plusnut will be better than any Rivnut, greater surface-area, but it's another set of M6 rivnuts in there for now. If it fails again, I'll need to bite the bullet and go to M8.

Not happy, but no choice. Thrown in, dosed each with a heap of JB Weld. We live in hope.

Edited by Landrover17H

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What is the diameter of the holes now? 

It's worth noting that there are different types of rivnut, I believe we have at least 3 different types of M6 riv nuts at work, all with different outer diameters. 
I believe off the top of my head 7, 8 and 9mm od. we also have M8 riv nuts with a 10mm od if that's any help?

If you need any sending over drop me a PM

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Posted (edited)

Really, I hope you're right? I spent heaps of time looking. My hole is 9.9mm which is on, or just over, the outer 'grip' limit of any M6 rivnut I could find. Go to M8 and you drill 11mm holes.

I spent two evenings on and off, going thru' numerous Rivnut manufacturer catalogues trying to find weightier M6 rivnut or rivnut studs. Plusnut are no better. All top-out at around 9.8 to 9.9mm.

I thought SAE Imperial stuff would sit at a halfway house between Metric sizes, but no. At around M6 sizes, Imperial stuff uses the same 9.9mm max drills. My 6 x holes are just that 0.1 to 0.2mm too big. M6 rivnuts come in at 9mm (unexpanded) and don't get to 10mm still gripping.

I'm hoping you know better, but below is typical of the problem. We want an M7 Rivnut or a Plusnut. A midpoint, somethings that sits 9.8mm (ish) unexpanded. I've had to bodge another set of M6 in there, I don't think I've solved the issue, just put it off. M8 with a 10mm OD, in my workings there's no such animal, but... I do hope you can prove me wrong. Will PM you.

Metric RivNut Chart.jpg

Imperial  RivNut Chart.png

M6 Rivnut Studs.png

Edited by Landrover17H

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Somewhere I have some M6 plusnuts I bought back from Australia, can’t seem to get them in the Uk. I can try and dig them out. They were bought as for a particular application M6 rivnuts were too small for the hole.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks. Plusnuts are difficult to get hold of here, I was happy to import these if they got me out of a jam. I was hoping the '+' of hte Plusnut, will stop them pulling thru'. But an M6 Plusnut still has a grip limit at 9.9mm (ish). Nonetheless, better because a Plusnut might spin in a 9.9mm (ish) hole, but won't pull thru'.  Even if they don't grip better than a Rivnut. A bit of JB Weld on a Plusnut might 'just' tip the balance.

Being the driver's door stay, my bodge won't last, so would appreciate you having a looksee at what you've got. I'd like to do a proper job, but that looks to involve an M8 Plusnut and bigger holes.

Edited by Landrover17H

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Posted (edited)

And for those of you that don't know what a Plusnut is... (I didn't) here you are, good aren't they? I would think for most uses, better than any Rivnut? Unfortunately, made of unobtainium in the UK. I've looked at every kind of wall-anchor, and all grip, deep in the cavity, as you'd expect. They don't do this - see piccy.

PlusNut.jpg

Edited by Landrover17H

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Posted (edited)

Closest to a Plusnut in wall-anchors is this, for plasterboard ... grip is too deep, can we give 'em 5 mins or the first gust of wind, on a driver's door-stay?

 

Wall-Anchor.png

Edited by Landrover17H

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If you sliced a rivnut, would it collapse like a plusnut?

That, and a spot of weld, might work.

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Posted (edited)

I suppose, but if I'm going to do it, may as well do it all, and import some Plusnuts. I am prepared to get Plusnuts, but they're still too small [M6] , or depending on which way I attack this [M8], too big. Now an M6 Plusnut welded to make it larger in diameter,  maybe - but I'd need to REALLY know what I'm doing with a welder. With my ability limited to 'Bird-sh&t', as today's menu special, that 'dear heart'.... is a long way off! And welding to the galv. self-defeats.

 

Ho-hum, for now I am forced to bodge. I march on.

 

Edited by Landrover17H

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Posted (edited)

As an aside, I wouldn't have believed it. Chassis + bulkhead were galved near 20 years back, and still look 'as new'. Fresh as a daisy. Which is why I don't want to be its Nemesis now. Looks like a 20 year old Volvo under there!

Edited by Landrover17H

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I admire your tenacity - by now I would have just drilled the hole out, covered it with paint, fitted the rivnut and been done with it.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, but this is a keeper, and I want to hand it to my boy ( he loves the thing) still in one bit.

 

I'll beat the B&^s*&d!

 

'sides, don't fancy putting another bulkhead in there, even if they were free, and you could get 'em.

Edited by Landrover17H

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M7 is an uncommon size in the UK but is used extensively in the French automotive industry, what you call a person I'm not that keen on size.

How do I know?  Bour eurobox suffered a rusted sump, as it is the base of our camper I fitted an alloy sump from another model, thicker flange, needed longer bolts.  Ended up buying from the Citroen agent and they cost a fortune, but the sump was cheap and wont rot away again.

Peter

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Could you fit one rivnut inside another? Or a shim collar? If the problem is the gap between a decent size and the hole, make the hole smaller.

File the hole into an octagon, to give rotational reluctance. Fold a lip on a strip of 0.8mm steel. Then curve the strip into a circle, wedge into the hole. Then rivnut.

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Hope this helps

You've already dropped me a PM. If you just need a couple send me your address and I'll post them over. I thought of I replied here rather than on the PM it may help with others in the future who come across this thread

IMG_20200526_090911.jpg

IMG_20200526_090947.jpg

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Stands back....  WOTTA BEAUTY!

And thank you. I tell you now, I looked and Googled and tried Bing etc... Then Yahoo. Nuthin'

What we really want to know is how the 'F' you knew this in the first place! I mean, come on... how?! Rivnut diameters is not your shoe-size is it? Happy to pay very good money for these, and appreciate you putting the info on open forum. What goes round comes round, and I'm sure I won't be the last with this issue. Will PM

 

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There I was getting my hopes up. Amazon carry M8 Wurth Rivnuts 0917780. Only... see piccy.

 

Quote

File the hole into an octagon, to give rotational reluctance. Fold a lip on a strip of 0.8mm steel. Then curve the strip into a circle, wedge into the hole. Then rivnut.

If I have your meaning, that rather defeats why I'm jumping thru' so many hoops.

Amazon Wurth Rivnuts.png

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29 minutes ago, Landrover17H said:

Stands back....  WOTTA BEAUTY!

And thank you. I tell you now, I looked and Googled and tried Bing etc... Then Yahoo. Nuthin'

What we really want to know is how the 'F' you knew this in the first place! I mean, come on... how?! Rivnut diameters is not your shoe-size is it? Happy to pay very good money for these, and appreciate you putting the info on open forum. What goes round comes round, and I'm sure I won't be the last with this issue. Will PM

 

For what I do, the more "useless" information I can retain the better! Also if you use a lot you get to know the drill size off by heart. Ill send you some

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Posted (edited)

Have a look at Jack nuts and versa nuts they might do the job versa look more like plus nuts regards Stephen

Edited by Stellaghost
Addition

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Posted (edited)

Previously looked at Jack-nuts and Versa. More for use in soft materials like chipboard and laminates. Even if this where not true, Versa-Nuts are sized the same as Rivnuts thus present the same issue. Wurth's web site show M8 rivnuts sized as any other, hence I'm happy DM sends me a handful of his stock.

 

Wurth M8.png

Edited by Landrover17H

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