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38 minutes ago, kevin50 said:

Already done that earlier Mate. took whole thing apart and started from Scratch, had both pins and marks bang on but still the same, only altered to Running Good when I moved 22 mil nut over.

Have you done it since refitting the pump, Kev ? Timing is critical, near enough isn't anywhere near good enough, I'm afraid.

Mo

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29 minutes ago, Peaklander said:

So is the belt sitting better now than in your photo just a few posts ago? I'm confused.

About post 23 refitted everything refitted, belt was on ok everything timed up again but still the same. Just me making a mistake with belt this time.

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Ok so the belt is sitting correctly, the flywheel slot is directly above the access hole (with pin in?), the cam sprocket mark is in-line with the fixed mark. The engine runs bad with the pump timing pin in but if you loosen and turn the pump pulley clockwise then the engine is sweet but there’s no alignment now to allow the pin in.

That has to be poor position of the pulley on the shaft doesn’t it or can the pump still be a tooth out (slack or tight)? 

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6 minutes ago, Peaklander said:

Ok so the belt is sitting correctly, the flywheel slot is directly above the access hole (with pin in?), the cam sprocket mark is in-line with the fixed mark. The engine runs bad with the pump timing pin in but if you loosen and turn the pump pulley clockwise then the engine is sweet but there’s no alignment now to allow the pin in.

That has to be poor position of the pulley on the shaft doesn’t it or can the pump still be a tooth out (slack or tight)? 

I think most people agree, Got to be poor position on shaft,  

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Gonna have a go with the Dial later.
Right so before I start should I put it back to where it was when it came back from Diesel Guy, ie Heavy Smoking and hard to start , then check first from there.?
Or leave  it where it is now after altering it to Run Properly ?
I am doing this in Situ. 
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I hope you don't mind this but I don't think that you have thought through just what is happening when you set the timing. It's not a matter of putting it back or leaving it where it is before you start. When you set the timing you will alter it.

When you do this there are two aspects. 

1) The pump is put into exactly the correct position within the injection cycle for #1 cylinder

The pump should be correctly set when the pin is put through the hole at the front but only if the flange/pulley is correct on the shaft. If it isn't, then just because the pin goes in doesn't mean that the pump is in the correct internal position.

That's what the dial gauge can be used for. When the pump is in the correct position (1.54mm of lift as measured with the dti) the pin should slide in. Look at Brittanica's videos again. It is clearly shown. If the pin won't go in when you have set it to 1.54, then you need to decide if you are going to re-position the flange yourself or take the pump somewhere to get it done. It sounds as though you tried to pull the flange off and couldn't. If you do go down this route you must be able to lock the pump when it is at 1.54mm using the bolt at the side. Then the flange can be positioned to allow the pin to slide in. Mike shows all this in the video.

You can check the 1.54 and the pin going in with the pump on the engine but to adjust the flange you would need to remove it.

 

2) The engine is put into the correct position for the pump setting in 1) above

The second point is all about the flywheel slot being exactly in the correct place. Have you got a pin for that? Also the cam sprocket being correctly aligned with the fixed mark on the engine.

 

Then with the pump correctly set with the pin in the hole, the timing belt can be fitted and tensioned correctly. If it doesn't run properly then you will have made a mistake somewhere.

If in any doubt, send the pump somewhere to have it set up again.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Peaklander said:

I hope you don't mind this but I don't think that you have thought through just what is happening when you set the timing. It's not a matter of putting it back or leaving it where it is before you start. When you set the timing you will alter it.

When you do this there are two aspects. 

1) The pump is put into exactly the correct position within the injection cycle for #1 cylinder

The pump should be correctly set when the pin is put through the hole at the front but only if the flange/pulley is correct on the shaft. If it isn't, then just because the pin goes in doesn't mean that the pump is in the correct internal position.

That's what the dial gauge can be used for. When the pump is in the correct position (1.54mm of lift as measured with the dti) the pin should slide in. Look at Brittanica's videos again. It is clearly shown. If the pin won't go in when you have set it to 1.54, then you need to decide if you are going to re-position the flange yourself or take the pump somewhere to get it done. It sounds as though you tried to pull the flange off and couldn't. If you do go down this route you must be able to lock the pump when it is at 1.54mm using the bolt at the side. Then the flange can be positioned to allow the pin to slide in. Mike shows all this in the video.

You can check the 1.54 and the pin going in with the pump on the engine but to adjust the flange you would need to remove it.

 

2) The engine is put into the correct position for the pump setting in 1) above

The second point is all about the flywheel slot being exactly in the correct place. Have you got a pin for that? Also the cam sprocket being correctly aligned with the fixed mark on the engine.

 

Then with the pump correctly set with the pin in the hole, the timing belt can be fitted and tensioned correctly. If it doesn't run properly then you will have made a mistake somewhere.

If in any doubt, send the pump somewhere to have it set up again.

 

 

I don't mind at all Mate, things take a while to register with me,😃  this stuff is way over my head.

Everything back on now Cover Alt Belt ect, don't really want to go back and pull the pump back off again if I can leave it as it is  till next Belt Change then It can all be done then.

Anyway followed the Vid and tested and it was Bang On first time, Flywheel pin in and slot visible when removed, Listen for click when pin drops in at 154, couldn't believe it as was expecting it to be way out.

 

 

IMG_20200610_161817.jpg

IMG_20200610_161755.jpg

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Ok well I'm almost out of advice and comments now. I have learnt a lot by reading this thread and watching videos and thinking things through. However I seem to get more confused when I read your updates rather than less 🤨. I still can't work out where you are with yours.

When you say the pin clicks in at 1.54, I assume you are using a spring pin at the flywheel and that you still can't get a pin into the fuel pump at that position.

If that is the case, I think you are still at the point suggested, either the pump flange is mis-placed or you have fitted the belt wrong.

What you do now is up to you.

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8 minutes ago, Peaklander said:

Ok well I'm almost out of advice and comments now. I have learnt a lot by reading this thread and watching videos and thinking things through. However I seem to get more confused when I read your updates rather than less 🤨. I still can't work out where you are with yours.

When you say the pin clicks in at 1.54, I assume you are using at spring pin at the flywheel and that you still can't get a pin into the fuel pump at that position.

If that is the case, I think you are still at the point suggested, either the pump flange is mis-placed or you have fitted the belt wrong.

What you do now is up to you.

Yes Exactly this When you say the pin clicks in at 1.54, I assume you are using at spring pin at the flywheel and that you still can't get a pin.       Really think the pump flange has been misplaced buy Diesel Shop,   some say it should be took Back off and put in correct place, Others say leave it as it is and sort it on next Belt Change which is easier for me as don't really have the time or funds to do.

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I think, if you dont want to take the pump off and re-adjust the flange position, then your best option is to leave it as it is and whenever (if) you need to check and reset the timing before the next cambelt change, you will need to set the flywheel and cam to TDC and use the dti to find the correct position of the pump, not the timing pin through the pump flange. You can fix the pump when you next have the cambelt off then.

Edited by reb78
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25 minutes ago, reb78 said:

I think, if you dont want to take the pump off and re-adjust the flange position, then your best option is to leave it as it is and whenever (if) you need to check and reset the timing before the next cambelt change, you will need to set the flywheel and cam to TDC and use the dti to find the correct position of the pump, not the timing pin through the pump flange. You can fix the pump when you next have the cambelt off then.

it's my cheapest option for now, but in the meantime if for any reason a seal or something goes in there and it's all got to come apart again then I'll do it.

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