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All Spark and No Bark


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Turners supply instructions for the re-conditioners on how to install them properly. I took them to the workshop and asked them how they were going to heat the block and as the answer satisfied me I decided to employ them.

 

There are tradesmen out there; and then there are the other sort of tradesmen! Ask questions and pick your re-conditioner wisely.

Hope it all goes well for you,

Cheers Charlie

 

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Sounds like your on a new track to hopefully getting it sorted..... would it not be worth getting it running well as is and ironing out the multitude of issues your having before stripping it? You wont want to be doing all that second guessing and worrying once its back together. just a thought

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1 hour ago, mikeh501 said:

Sounds like your on a new track to hopefully getting it sorted..... would it not be worth getting it running well as is and ironing out the multitude of issues your having before stripping it? You wont want to be doing all that second guessing and worrying once its back together. just a thought

Trying to tune a mechanically malfunctioning engine is a waste of time though - even with a perfect setup it would never run right and you'd have to change it all over again to compensate once it was fixed.

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thats fair enough but cant see why you wouldnt at least get it idling right and generally behaving otherwise surely hes going to be second guessing all over again once its back together. if it was me it would certainly make me feel better too lol

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I did consider trying to get it tuned up now and then being able to run the engine as-new with little to no tuning, but as the others have said, it just won't end up like that once everything's been apart for the same reason the standard tune is never a plug-and-play for any engine, just a 'near enough' base.

Besides, for me tuning is 60% how it sounds, 40% how it vibrates, 11% how it smells and 0% maths. With this clattering I can't even get close to knowing if it's running well or not from the changes I'm making and I am sure that the misfire/rough running is linked, if not a direct symptom. When I know everything is mechanically sound I only have MS variables left. The only concern I had before was running in the cam, now that is done I don't need the engine to run first time and can spend time getting it right.

I've also been able to prove a lot of what I've been trying has worked through this disassembly, such as I now know my air leak is in the filter housing itself. I also know the idle screw is not gummed up as I've had it out and cleaned up. I can also see no faults with what I did putting the engine together, which is nice.

15 hours ago, elbekko said:

Oof, that sucks. Sad to hear.

Not sure why you want to take out the crank in-situ if the block needs to come out anyway?

The problem is that now it's fully assembled with a bumper on, there is no room to get a crane in. I thought that if I took it apart bit by bit, I could eventually just lift the block out. What I forgot - and with 5 seconds of thought I would have realised this - is that the flywheel, clutch, etc need to come away from the gearbox before I can take them off the crank, and I can't manually lift the block with the crank in. So I've painted myself into a corner and will have to roll the car out, take off the bumper, front panel and radiator to use a strap through the cylinders to crane the block out. Also, did I mention my car doesn't fit through my current garage door? The sheer number of factors, past decisions and random chance (like the new garage door not being delivered last week, as due), is unbelievable.

My decision making has been stupid but I am rushing to get it off to Turners and I thought I could save undoing all the work to get me to the MOT. No chance.

I've decided I'm going with Turners as I can't mess around with it and I know they'll do a good job. I do appreciate the ideas though, but in this case I had already committed to it by the time I saw them.

In a rather cruel twist, my phone is has a feature where it shows photos I took 'on this day a year ago' in my notifications. It is spamming me with the previous engine assembly and fitting after it was rebuilt. A year ago to the day. Again, I have no words. I just wish now I'd listened to Chazza back then and sent it off to Turners in the first place.

I realise I have been incredibly whingey duing this process, I will be toning it down.

 

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20 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

I've decided I'm going with Turners as I can't mess around with it and I know they'll do a good job. I do appreciate the ideas though, but in this case I had already committed to it by the time I saw them.

That's an entirely reasonable decision, no harm in just spending the money to just get it done and move on.

20 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

I realise I have been incredibly whingey duing this process, I will be toning it down.

I don't think you have - a problem like this is never what you plan for and always causes a degree of disruption and delay / protracted fault-finding to rule out everything "less worse" first... certainly feel your frustration with this project and understand it, trying to make something as perfect as your 90 is going to be means you'll always be fighting with niggly frustrating stuff that other folks would bodge up or ignore as "good enough".

Just look at that NZ chappy on Youtube who had the bent or bodged tub and re-did the tub/chassis several times over including cutting the freshly rebuilt back of his chassis off at least once - when you're trying to do stuff right you hit stuff like that and the only answer is the painful one.

Hell my 109 rebuild at HOFS began with throwing the fruits of the first rebuild in the skip and starting over, that was a painful moment - but it was right.

 

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The objective really wasn't to spend any more on it, but in reality I just didn't think of anyone else to go with.

The nightmares don't end. Having taken everything off the front, the engine won't separate from the gearbox. I started to, but is now at an angle where it's clear on the pasenger side but as if a dowel is keeping it pinned on the starter side even though the dowell that side is not the sticking point.

I don't want to get my head under with it hanging on the crane but there are no bolts holding it on. Concerned what this will be doing to the input shaft at this angle. Beating on it with a crowbar only results in damage to the castings so I am quite literally stuck.

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24 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said:

The objective really wasn't to spend any more on it, but in reality I just didn't think of anyone else to go with.

The nightmares don't end. Having taken everything off the front, the engine won't separate from the gearbox. I started to, but is now at an angle where it's clear on the pasenger side but as if a dowel is keeping it pinned on the starter side even though the dowell that side is not the sticking point.

I don't want to get my head under with it hanging on the crane but there are no bolts holding it on. Concerned what this will be doing to the input shaft at this angle. Beating on it with a crowbar only results in damage to the castings so I am quite literally stuck.

Switch off from it tonight if you can, it's only nuts and bolts......

Problem being when nowt's going right, it effects everything and frustration is not a clear head.

Sometimes you have to walk away, when your heads in a better place you can look at it with new eyes, 9 times out of 10 it will be something simple

Been there myself on occasions to numerous to list regards Stephen

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Absolutely 100% what Stephen said - even at the height of time-critical panic in the lab there were days (nights... mornings...) where we all agreed we just needed to stop and walk away and come back having cleared heads and a night's sleep.

I've found that splitting or joining major components like that they will fight you the harder you try, then randomly and for no reason just "pop" apart or back together when you are least expecting it. Often a few extra ratchet straps, jacks, axle stands and lumps of wood help to prop things up and brace things so they're not trying to droop or rotate or other silly things like that - usually the engine holds the front of the gearbox up and the gearbox holds the back of the engine up, so they never want to come apart cleanly :rolleyes:

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To add, very little stress on the input shaft at this point, only the twist between the engine and box, which is small.

Squirt of WD40 and leave for the night, go in for a beer ;)

 

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12 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I've found that splitting or joining major components like that they will fight you the harder you try, then randomly and for no reason just "pop" apart or back together when you are least expecting it.

^This. When fitting the LT77 to my rover saloon, the engine and box slid together beautifully first time, I was amazed. Then I remembered I hadn't torqued the bolts that hold the bellhousing to the main body of the gearbox! Took it apart, torqued, but would it go back together again? Would it ever! Much, much huffing puffing and swearing later engine and box were finally a single unit again. Annoyed was not the word...

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It's out. I have no idea how I'm going to keep track of what bolt fits what or where the bolts even are now everything is spread around, but it's out.

I am going to take a break from anything Land Rover related until I have it back, then I'll devote a weekend to building it back up. At least I have a bit of practice now.

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I put the fasteners in labelled tins, screw-top jars, or zip-lock bags and label each container. Clean sub-assemblies and parts such as rocker covers and sump, go into plastic rubbish bags with the necks tied.

On the last rebuild I made a clean-room by draping painters plastic from the trusses and bagging the bottom of it to the concrete floor. Everything was hoovered and wiped before setting out the new parts on the table and the clean block on its stand. 

Take your time and enjoy the process; measure everything new before assembling it,

Cheers Charlie

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
9 hours ago, Chazza said:

That was fast!

Make sure you clean it properly; it probably has grit stuck in all of the macroscopic crevises,

Cheers Charlie

Completely, I think they've cleaned it well but everything I've read says clean a returned engine as though it's covered in filth.

I might actually gap the rings this time, the luxury.

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Definitely gap the rings!

On my rebuild one top compression-ring needed filing; all of the oil-scrapers needed grinding and from memory all of the second compression-rings needed work as well.

Measuring every new part before you install it, is essential preparation,

Cheers Charlie

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8 hours ago, Chazza said:

On my rebuild one top compression-ring needed filing; all of the oil-scrapers needed grinding and from memory all of the second compression-rings needed work as well.

Huh, on my rebuild I checked them all, and none needed filing, they were all exactly in spec. Might depend on supplier...

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