ThreePointFive Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 I hope so. I've not taken anything else apart yet, just the heads. I want to do it one step at a time so I don't lose track of what goes where. I noticed that not many people seem to bother with the little end bearings when rebuilding, I assume those can be checked just by checking for lateral play? Turners have been really good. Frida knows her stuff and was very helpful in how many of whatever I needed and what was/was not worth doing. Expensive hobby though. Really, really, really expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 Bit of progress, heads are together. New rocker shafts and springs, new genuine rocker to replace the damaged one, new valve springs all round, new valve seals. The head surfaces are all within tolerances, as are the valves, so lapped them and cleaned up everything. ] Started taking the crank out, still coming across the carbon-grainy oil. Otherwise it looks good so far, just the slightest hint of copper showing on the top of the bearing surfaces for the conrods. I'll post pics tomorrow. Slightly concerned that two of the bearing shells were loose when I unbolted them, enough so that the suction from the oil on the crank was enough to keep them there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 14 hours ago, ThreePointFive said: Slightly concerned that two of the bearing shells were loose when I unbolted them, enough so that the suction from the oil on the crank was enough to keep them there. What do you mean? Just that they stuck to the crank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Yeah, they came off the end cap/conrod under minimal pressure (the oil had enough stick-tion to keep them there. The rest are firmly in place as I'd have expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I've had that too, nothing to worry about as long as it doesn't look like they've spun in the block. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 If in doubt just use a couple of self-tappers to hold the new ones in /joke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Of course that's a joke, I'm not that stupid. I know you can't use screws. What size nails do I need? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 The engine is now fully stripped and it's not all good news. Rear in rough condition: Rear Cap: Rear crank surface: Average condition big end bearing, noting the copper showing on the edge only. 2nd from front, copper decreasing with each forward bearing. cap: Front cap: Rearmost conrod. Grooves look pretty bad but don't feel very deep. Crank position for this rod: The shells that 'fell out' and stuck to the crank: The conrod they came from: Average condition top and cap: Front conrod bearing: Crank surface for this rod: Good cylinder bore: Average cylinder bore: Worst cylinder bore: Lastly, the conrod with the loose bearings has a very tight small end/top bearing/whatever it's called. It's quite happy to stay in a position when stood up for these photos, whereas the rest will not. I can't help but wonder if this could be the cause of my clicking noise, given it would the rear passenger side cylinder.... I'd be surprised if I managed to hear it, but there's been nothing else obvious for that cylinder's clicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 That doesn't look great, no. Bearings showing copper is fairly normal at high mileage, what I find strange is where it's on the side of the bearing. The crank definitely looks like it needs a polish. Tight small ends shouldn't give a knocking noise, at least they didn't for me. And they came loose pretty easy just wiggling them around a bit. 8 hours ago, ThreePointFive said: Had this shell been moved? The oil hole isn't lined up properly, that's not great. 8 hours ago, ThreePointFive said: Looks ok to me, maybe a few more marks than you'd want to see, but doesn't look to me like it's been spinning around? 8 hours ago, ThreePointFive said: Also doesn't look bad at all IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeley75 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Doing a grand job here. At least once its screwed back together you'll know its good for a few years......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 Crank is booked in for a polish with the excellent local engineering shop. They will assess it so if it needs a re-grind then so be it. I think it's right to have them look at it, especially as the wear on the bearing surfaces is uneven. Elbekko - that bearing moved after the crank was removed, fairly certain I did that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 2 hours ago, keeley75 said: Doing a grand job here. At least once its screwed back together you'll know its good for a few years......... Feels like I'm making it up as I go along. Despite having watched hours of engine rebuild and tuning videos, I am amazed by how simple these are. But that hides how precise everything needs to be, which is where the mess ups will happen. All in all, glad I decided to do it as there were a couple of time bombs building up in there. As this is an MS thread and I'm already off-topic enough, I guess now I need a map that works with the Kent H180. Can I steal yours or is there a place to find a standard one to work with this cam? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 They're very simple lumps indeed - just keep everything surgically clean and you'll be dandy. If you haven't already, a gallon jug of brake cleaner and a Wurth spray bottle with the HD seals is a great investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 I did order 12 cans of brake cleaner for a reasonable price (Holts beats Wynns, I have discovered). Actual photo of my workspace by the end of cleaning the heads: As I can carry the block around, I'll thoroughly clean it outside the garage next and then finish up with the brake cleaner. Then it's stripping out the cam bearings and breaking the cylinder glaze - I assume a very fine sandpaper will do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Leave the cam bearings unless milkweed, they rarely wear and need special tooling to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 23 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said: As I can carry the block around, I'll thoroughly clean it outside the garage next and then finish up with the brake cleaner. Then it's stripping out the cam bearings and breaking the cylinder glaze - I assume a very fine sandpaper will do? Yes, just make sure to clean thoroughly after using sandpaper, don't want too much of the grit inside the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeley75 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 3 hours ago, ThreePointFive said: I guess now I need a map that works with the Kent H180. Can I steal yours or is there a place to find a standard one to work with this cam? Yes of course. you can have my fuel table and ignition table. Also don't forget to check the lifters when the Cam is fitted you might need some pedestal shims. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Leave the cam bearings unless milkweed, they rarely wear and need special tooling to fit. Damn, ordered a fresh set. I'll take a look, the cam didn't come out smoothly so I've probably f'ed them up knowing my luck. 32 minutes ago, keeley75 said: Yes of course. you can have my fuel table and ignition table. Also don't forget to check the lifters when the Cam is fitted you might need some pedestal shims. Thanks, that's really cool. Yes on the shims, I have just loosely fitted the rockers so I'll get that all set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 1 hour ago, ThreePointFive said: Damn, ordered a fresh set. I'll take a look, the cam didn't come out smoothly so I've probably f'ed them up knowing my luck. They are harder than they look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Send the block to your re-conditioner for measuring; installing the new cam bearings; and a hot-wash, to get all of the grit out of the oil galleries, which caused all of that damage in the scored cylinder and to the crank. If it was my engine, I would have new liners and pistons as well, unless the bores are to size. Have you investigated around the top of the liners to see if they have moved yet? If you get it hot-washed, loose liners will move when pushed by hand, Good luck! Cheers Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeley75 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 16 hours ago, ThreePointFive said: Damn, ordered a fresh set. I'll take a look, the cam didn't come out smoothly so I've probably f'ed them up knowing my luck. Thanks, that's really cool. Yes on the shims, I have just loosely fitted the rockers so I'll get that all set up. Have sent you a message using the facility on this forum. Files waiting for your reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeley75 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Sent. However there will be differences depending on what injectors, PWM setup, Lambda or Wide band... etc etc. However as you've already had it running your big hurdle is conquered.... Its just a matter of Tuning. Once you've finished getting your hands oily...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 Keely, really appreciated. Getting it close will rule out many of the variables when it's not running 'right' and I can't immediately see why. This strip down also means I will get the proper TDC marks sorted, I know I was close before but I can get it bang-on now. I'll move the trigger wheel so the MS figures match reality rather than account for the error. On 8/22/2020 at 1:13 AM, Chazza said: Send the block to your re-conditioner for measuring; installing the new cam bearings; and a hot-wash, to get all of the grit out of the oil galleries, which caused all of that damage in the scored cylinder and to the crank. If it was my engine, I would have new liners and pistons as well, unless the bores are to size. Have you investigated around the top of the liners to see if they have moved yet? If you get it hot-washed, loose liners will move when pushed by hand, Good luck! Cheers Charlie I think you're onto something. For the cost, having them assess the block would also be a good idea and I think these areas are where the experienced eye will be needed for when to do a replacement or not. I'm hoping the liners can be deemed ok but they can tell me that. Here is the front cam bearing, the rest look much better but it looks rough enough to me. There's no arguing that the grittiness is either the cause or outcome of something bad and I need to get it fully cleared out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 The block is now with the engineering firm, in addition to the crank and timing cover that needed some attention to the oil cooler threads. I had them booked to do a fair amount of work but there has been a development. They're quite concerned by the water damage mark seen in the liner here: I knew that was what it was, but they made a good point - it's not near to any coolant outlets so how would water have got there? They're going to pressure test the block (not cheap) but it will tell me If it's worth continuing with or if I've just gained a cliche car-enthusiast coffee table. Not wishing to reinforce the accusations I am a pessimist but I have started shopping for a 4.6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeley75 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 I'd be tempted to get the block sleeved. ie top hat from Turners or Automotive. Sling a 4.6 crank in it. Fit 4.6 little ends in the pistons. Maybe get the heads cleaned up a bit. For fuel efficiency of course. The engine will last you and you'll know its good............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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