Non insulated crimp terminals - - what am I doing wrong?

[L19MUD]

27 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said:

Most terminals for proprietary plugs will have a special (read: expensive) crimper made by the manufacturer of the plug system, though you can often get away with using the generic ones like in the videos. 

I’ve often found that it’s easy to apply too much pressure and distort the small terminals. 

All very disappointing as multiplugs would have been a much nicer neater solution

I can put up with the extra hassle of disconnecting once every few years or so and will use the spade terminals. I can reduce the opportunity for error by bunching cables in numbered groups and putting opposite male and female connectors on like coloured cables in the same bunch

[Ex Member]

You are still doing something wrong or have the wrong size terminals.  The wire should break before it comes loose

[L19MUD]

13 minutes ago, Red90 said:

You are still doing something wrong or have the wrong size terminals.  The wire should break before it comes loose

I think you are right. If I was happy with the terminals in the plug itself I would persevere and buy a load more terminals and keep trying until I got it right. I'm not happy with them though so I won't spend any more money on what seems to be a poor solution

[landroversforever]

Have your crimpers got a step in the middle of each size? I haven’t used them in a while but I’m sure my uninsulated ones have a step so one part does the main crimp and the other does the mechanical crimp into the insulation.  

[L19MUD]

1 hour ago, landroversforever said:

Have your crimpers got a step in the middle of each size? I haven’t used them in a while but I’m sure my uninsulated ones have a step so one part does the main crimp and the other does the mechanical crimp into the insulation.  

Yes they have. I can produce reasonable looking crimps now although not as strong as an insulated terminal but not happy with the way the terminal fits the connector

 

I would say the wire size looks a little small for this terminal size though? The size is within spec per AES though. 

 

[elbekko]

I just do that type of crimp with a needle-nosed plier usually, takes a bit longer but holds up just fine.

[landroversforever]

5 hours ago, L19MUD said:

Yes they have. I can produce reasonable looking crimps now although not as strong as an insulated terminal but not happy with the way the terminal fits the connector

 

I would say the wire size looks a little small for this terminal size though? The size is within spec per AES though. 

 

Little bit hard to see in the picture, but that looks like it needs to go in the next size down to me. 

[L19MUD]

I have bought a load of spade terminals and also bought some multi plug connectors that use uninsulated spades from AES to see if they are better than the Mate N Lok connectors

They will go together this weekend one way or another! 

[ElectricDogs]

Also, take a look here from about 8m 20s - very good demo.

 

[tiddler]

13 hours ago, L19MUD said:

From where? The usual suspects such as vwp and aes just stock mate n lock and econoseal. 

I have just achieved a decent looking crimp but the strength of it is much less than an insulated spade terminal. I can't pull a spade terminal apart by hand but I can with the mate and lok ones

I'm not sure why those terminals have such a bad reputation as they seem much more reliable to me

Simtek can supply most OE loom parts. In my experience very helpful with queries and advice too.

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, tiddler said:

Simtek can supply most OE loom parts. In my experience very helpful with queries and advice too.

@PaulMc on here does all the land rover connectors at good prices  

[L19MUD]

I have bought some multi connectors from AES that have non insulated spade terminals inside to see if they are better. Failing that I think I will be breaking out the insulated spade crimps.

I hadn't thought of Paul to be honest!

[Ed Poore]

@L19MUD - as people have correctly surmised there is a correct way to place the crimps in the terminal. The two tabs need to be facing the female (bum shaped part of the crimp) as this will curl them over.

I've had plenty of success with a non-ratcheting version, often find it easier since you can feel what it's doing better.

One tip I can offer is to nip up the tabs with a pair of long nose pliers so that they are parallel before they go into the crimp. I find it makes it much easier to start the tabs curling over. If the crimp starts to twist in the tool then game over and cut your losses and start again.

[Ex Member]

Your latest pictures look as if the wire is too small for the terminals.

[landroversforever]

1 minute ago, Red90 said:

Your latest pictures look as if the wire is too small for the terminals.

Now I'm on the computer rather than phone I'd have to agree.

[L19MUD]

1 hour ago, Red90 said:

Your latest pictures look as if the wire is too small for the terminals.

I agree. Look neat now though typically!! Didn't try the smaller terminals yet

[smallfry]

Those are the wrong crimp jaws for those terminals. For a start "uninsulated terminals" normally refers to what are known as "Lucar" spades, male or female. Those jaws do not look right even for them. The bottom jaw looks flat to me, when it should be almost, but not quite, semi circular.

A lot of OE connectors are made by AMP and Delphi, and they are all good quality, but they have several different types and sizes of crimps.

ISTR there are around 12 different sets of jaws for these types of crimper.

[smallfry]

I have a Sealey Tools paper catalogue here which lists 12 different types, but I am sure there are more.

Have a look at their online catalogue and put "crimping jaws" in the search tool. 

Will give you some idea of what a minefield this is !

[Anderzander]

That’s what I thought - when the tool is right the crimps are easy to do and usually come out pretty perfect.

[Superpants]

As others have pointed out the only sure fire way to get good results is to match the terminal, wire and tool together. This can be quite a minefield as even the insulation diameter can affect the crimp.The difference between a good and poor crimp can sometimes come down to a few 10th of a millimetre.

For some of the more common types there are aftermarket options- for example the superseal ones listed further up. They aren't as good as the original tool, but generally give adequate results. Can't say i've come across one for Mate-n-lok though.

Many of the common automotive connectors are now avaialble from the big four catalogue distributors (Farnell/ RS/ Mouser/ Digikey).

I wrote a guide to crimping a few years back- you might find it of interest.

http://www.superpants.net/crimping.html

[landroversforever]

2 minutes ago, Anderzander said:

That’s what I thought - when the tool is right the crimps are easy to do and usually come out pretty perfect.

And so satisfying!

@L19MUD Important question... Just to check did you do the obligatory squeeze or two of the crimper before using it?  

[L19MUD]

8 hours ago, Superpants said:

As others have pointed out the only sure fire way to get good results is to match the terminal, wire and tool together. This can be quite a minefield as even the insulation diameter can affect the crimp.The difference between a good and poor crimp can sometimes come down to a few 10th of a millimetre.

For some of the more common types there are aftermarket options- for example the superseal ones listed further up. They aren't as good as the original tool, but generally give adequate results. Can't say i've come across one for Mate-n-lok though.

Many of the common automotive connectors are now avaialble from the big four catalogue distributors (Farnell/ RS/ Mouser/ Digikey).

I wrote a guide to crimping a few years back- you might find it of interest.

http://www.superpants.net/crimping.html

That's a really good guide. Will have a proper read later. I really had no idea something this simple could be so complex! 

[L19MUD]

8 hours ago, Anderzander said:

That’s what I thought - when the tool is right the crimps are easy to do and usually come out pretty perfect.

This is my experience with insulated crimps so naturally I thought I was being an idiot. 

 

As it happens I think I was going about it the wrong way but the crimpers may not be correct either. 

[Arjan]

I bought a 180 € crimping tool when I moved to France and knew I'd rebuild & rewire 3 LR's at least.

Glad I did.

Good quality terminals help, too...

[Anderzander]

On 6/2/2020 at 7:29 PM, L19MUD said:

 

Found this on the net for mate-n-lock: https://uk.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110400379720/