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200tdi Discovery to Defender


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hi all,

My 110 200tdi engine has been weeping oil from every available orifice so I decided a rebuild was in order.

Not wanting to take him off the road I purchased a 200tdi engine from a local guy who killed his disco.

I’ve managed to source front covers, clutch housing and inlet/exhaust manifolds with a spare turbo.

I’ve got the disco engine stripped right down and have a bit of a dilemma over rebore/regrind as it all seems pretty good despite the 225k miles, I suspect bearings had been changed at some point as only the top shells of the big ends had any significant wear. 
I’m going to replace the core plugs as all are very rusty.

anyway there may be more questions but for now I was wondering if the front pulleys are the same on the disco and defender- FIP/cam/crank timing/belt

all advice welcomed

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If you've got an original 200Tdi in your 110 then  the timing case is different so all the geometry of the alternator, PAS pump etc are different. I believe that the FIP is also slightly differently timed internally but swapping one for another shouldn't cause any problems.

However, if your 110 already has a Discovery 200Tdi in it from a previous conversion then the two engines you have should be the same (possibly).

 

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8 hours ago, Tetsu0san said:

If you've got an original 200Tdi in your 110 then  the timing case is different so all the geometry of the alternator, PAS pump etc are different. I believe that the FIP is also slightly differently timed internally but swapping one for another shouldn't cause any problems.

However, if your 110 already has a Discovery 200Tdi in it from a previous conversion then the two engines you have should be the same (possibly).

 

My 110 had the official 200tdi powerplant upgrade so is not the the disco version.

To be honest I'm being slightly lazy/wasteful as I like the idea of building up a second engine with all ancillaries ready to go in so I've been ebay shopping for genuine defender 200tdi parts for a while.

However I don't want to make any stupid errors through ignorance (a frequent occurrence)  So I have proper defender timing covers, my question really was whether all the timing gear from the discovery can be re-used (obviously with a new belt)

I'd read that there was a FIP difference, I'm trying to work out whether that is adjustable or not - there seem to be differing views on messing with the FIP or actually whether you can put the disco one in the defender with no ill effects.

 

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Thought I'd post some pictures of my delves into the engine.

I haven't worked on an engine to this level since I worked on and rebuilt my old'67 1275cc midget

I've purchased an engine crane and engine stand  - the stand I think is brilliant, and I'm sure will get future use.

First pics of engine on the stand - with manifolds and turbo removed, I won't be needing those.

Core plugs are not looking good and I will be aiming to replace them

 

IMG_1614.JPG

IMG_1612.JPG

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16 minutes ago, jokeruk said:

My 110 had the official 200tdi powerplant upgrade so is not the the disco version.

To be honest I'm being slightly lazy/wasteful as I like the idea of building up a second engine with all ancillaries ready to go in so I've been ebay shopping for genuine defender 200tdi parts for a while.

However I don't want to make any stupid errors through ignorance (a frequent occurrence)  So I have proper defender timing covers, my question really was whether all the timing gear from the discovery can be re-used (obviously with a new belt)

I'd read that there was a FIP difference, I'm trying to work out whether that is adjustable or not - there seem to be differing views on messing with the FIP or actually whether you can put the disco one in the defender with no ill effects.

 

Due to the timing chest being different between Discovery and Defender the timing belt and all that is also different. Not sure what is still available regarding all the gear but I bet you can find pulleys and belts if you look hard enough.

I watch a channel on YouTube of a bloke in Canada (here) who does a lot of Land Rover stuff. A while ago he was pulling apart injection pumps and mentioned that the pump timing is different between a Defender and a Discovery pump, although either can (and have) been run in either and work fine. I bet there are people who have seen differences between the two but personally I haven't. I don't think it's really a concern to be honest.

 

Edited by Tetsu0san
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Absolutely loving the way I can rotate the engine on the stand! Sump is really quite rusty, I'm not sure it will fit in my blasting cabinet so may need to take it to be properly blasted. Looking at the mess on the floor you can see my inexperience - should have put cardboard down, and also draining everything does not seem to mean it is drained....

IMG_7440.jpg

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FIP pump brackets are different between the two, as is the power steering pump and bracket and alternator bracket.

The injector pipes are different.

Crank v belt and alternator v belt bullies are the same. 

Discovery timing chest has an extra idler wheel to the defender. I would expect t the timing gears to be the same but id want compare them back to back before I use them.

Injector pump is more or less the same.

HTH

Mo

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Slightly blurry picture here but definitely the first gotcha!  If you are going to do this at home folks you must undo the crank bolt while the engine is in the car as it is a pita to try to do it on a stand. I know I'm going todraw some criticism but I had to improvise to get it undone.....

IMG_7442.jpg

IMG_7441.jpg

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Interestingly the big ends were all worn through fairly uniformly on the top shell but not the bottom is this normal?   Although looking at the wear/pitting  I suspect the oil changes were not regular

I'm going to be going through a measurement process on the crank to see whether a regrind is required - it seems a shame not to do it, but there is not a local place that does that sort of work so I only want to do it if it is necessary (I have the angel and devil on opposite shoulders trying to give advice) Can't upload a pic as I seem to have hit a limit of 20mb I will see if I can make the others smaller

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20 minutes ago, Mo Murphy said:

FIP pump brackets are different between the two, as is the power steering pump and bracket and alternator bracket.

The injector pipes are different.

Crank v belt and alternator v belt bullies are the same. 

Discovery timing chest has an extra idler wheel to the defender. I would expect t the timing gears to be the same but id want compare them back to back before I use them.

Injector pump is more or less the same.

HTH

Mo

Thanks Mo, I've ordered new injector pipes - I will look around for the brackets, the person I got the turbo and manifold from has more parts I can hopefully get

 

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31 minutes ago, Tetsu0san said:

Due to the timing chest being different between Discover and defender the timing belt and all that is also different. Not sure what is still available regarding all the gear but I bet you can find pulleys and belts if you look hard enough.

I watch a channel on YouTube of a bloke in Canada (here) who does a lot of Land Rover stuff. A while ago he was pulling apart injection pumps and mentioned that the pump timing is different between a Defender and a Discovery pump, although either can (and have) been run in either and work fine. I bet there are people who have seen differences between the two but personally I haven't. I don't think it's really a concern to be honest.

 

I can see there is quite a bit of stuff - he seems pretty competent! Apparently the FIP timing can be adjusted (which I *believe* is the main difference although the disco pumps are dual stage)

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59 minutes ago, western said:

You cannot undo the crank main & big end bolts with engine fitted as the ladder frame above the sump prevents access,

WP_20171031_18_55_24_Pro.jpg

I rebuilt my Defender spec 200Tdi 2 years ago,  my thread is 

 it may help.

Thanks Western, yes I have the ladder and pretty much everything off- I’ve read through your thread a few times for inspiration! The mains were so tight my multi-point socket snapped. Hopefully a new one arriving tomorrow.

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Use the turner engineering web site to check pulley part numbers, compare the disco with the defender numbers and you'll know for sure.

 

A battery impact wrench is very useful in undoing crank bolts when out of the vehicle.

Beg, borrow, buy one of you can.

Obvs use impact sockets.

Here's one, I've no experience with modern Makita stuff, but their old school was excellent.

If you are on a battery system already, then might be better stick with what you got.

Screenshot_2020-06-19-09-01-12-219_com_ebay.mobile.thumb.jpg.cd9398b773bad7498b0230bc30ec29c7.jpg

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There is an re-branded version of that impact gun available on eBay.  It's identical. Cost me about 40 quid. My mate has the makita. we often swap batteries! Fantastic tool

I recon the wear pattern on your shells is due to someone not being bothered to do the top shells

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2 hours ago, Gazzar said:

Use the turner engineering web site to check pulley part numbers, compare the disco with the defender numbers and you'll know for sure.

 

A battery impact wrench is very useful in undoing crank bolts when out of the vehicle.

Beg, borrow, buy one of you can.

Obvs use impact sockets.

Here's one, I've no experience with modern Makita stuff, but their old school was excellent.

If you are on a battery system already, then might be better stick with what you got.

Screenshot_2020-06-19-09-01-12-219_com_ebay.mobile.thumb.jpg.cd9398b773bad7498b0230bc30ec29c7.jpg

Thanks Gazzar, - I have a battery impact driver - I've found it to be of limited use so far, my expectations were high but everytime I've had a really stuck bolt it seems not to cope.

I've just got a compressor so I'm thinking some air tools could be the way to go - but again I've had so many warnings that impact tools should be last resort as they can damage nuts/bolts, may depend on socket quality

 

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2 hours ago, Nonimouse said:

There is an re-branded version of that impact gun available on eBay.  It's identical. Cost me about 40 quid. My mate has the makita. we often swap batteries! Fantastic tool

I recon the wear pattern on your shells is due to someone not being bothered to do the top shells

hmmm interesting thought on the shell wear. new socket has just arrived so we will see what the mains are like

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