Popular Post Anderzander Posted July 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 30, 2021 I’ve just booked a test drive in October 😊 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 On 7/26/2021 at 1:58 PM, Happyoldgit said: As an aside, and I am not sure if it has been mentioned before in this section or elsewhere, but after a chat among the A&M team back in October 2020 Jeremy 996 sent an email to Ineos on behalf of LR4x4. The idea was to inform them of the existence of our forum, that we are independent and self funded, that our membership has a wealth of knowledge in the 'practical side of 4x4 ownership / operation / maintenance / design / fabrication' etc. Jeremy also mentioned that we had set up a section entirely devoted to the Ineos Grenadier and that some of the comments from our members may be of interest and potentially of assistance to them. We asked for nothing, it was just a courtesy "reach out" to a new manufacturer who seem to be striving to produce something of interest to a number of our members. Just to amplify Happyoldgit's comment, I never did receive a response to the e-mail I sent to Ineos, Jim Radcliffe and their press officer. They seem to have a policy of formal engagement with accredited journalists and a general acceptance of social media sources with co-operation only as private individuals, (see the PowerfulUK YouTube video on the previous page). I have got access to all of the press resources and have commented on them where I see fit. I don't get sent them specially. I'm on the 2B tour, together with 100s of others! Just to illustrate what kind of anorak I am, I also stalk the wider web, Facebook, main stream media, the motoring press and YouTube looking for Grenadier content, some of which I post here. (Much of it is just too dull and derivative to give it exposure). If I have missed something novel, interesting or controversial, please add it here or tell me about it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 I suppose it’s a bit unrealistic to expect their PR office to engage fully with every Tom, Dick and Harry who calls them or every club and forum, as they can’t know which enquiries are serious and informed, and which are tyre kickers looking for a new subject to waste time or unfairly malign. It’s a pity, though, and it’s worth a try. Well done for what you have managed to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 On 7/30/2021 at 12:45 PM, Anderzander said: I’ve just booked a test drive in October 😊 is that the 'test drive' in one of the prototypes sat next to one of their own drivers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 It is. They are calling it the 2b prototype experience. It’ll last about 2hours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 3 hours ago, Anderzander said: It is. They are calling it the 2b prototype experience. It’ll last about 2hours. Yep, I received an invite. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 On 7/31/2021 at 2:15 PM, Anderzander said: It is. They are calling it the 2b prototype experience. It’ll last about 2hours. Not really a test drive then, more of a drive about ! I do like the Grenadier and I do hope to drive one for real one day. Perhaps at a dealer should I have a windfall. Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 Yes - my clumsy use of words ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 A ride along and get a feel of it from a passenger viewpoint kind of thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jeremy996 Posted August 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 6, 2021 On 8/1/2021 at 10:12 PM, Happyoldgit said: A ride along and get a feel of it from a passenger viewpoint kind of thing. Andrew English in the Telegraph, sounding very like Happyoldgit! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/ineos-grenadier-new-4x4-rough-tough-go-anywhere-truck-full-contradictions/ Ineos Grenadier: the new 4x4 is a rough, tough, go-anywhere truck that's full of contradictions We assess the progress and off-road prowess of the eagerly awaited off-roader ahead of its launch in 2022 By Andrew English 6 August 2021 • 6:00am (Picture removed but caption preserved) Prices will be confirmed soon but the Grenadier is expected to start at £45,000 - although that's for a two-seater commercial version, not this five-seat passenger version CREDIT: Chris Brown We don’t normally do this stuff, sitting in a passenger seat while a chisel-faced test driver pulls some tricks to make a vehicle look better than it really is. But the Ineos Grenadier is a vehicle full of contradictions. For a start, it’s a now old-fashioned body-on-frame utility aimed at a market which other makers are rapidly deserting. At a mooted £45,000 including VAT for the two-seat commercial version when it goes on sale next summer, this is a resolutely analogue vehicle with buttons enough for several Christmas pantos, but it also sports a thoroughly modern touchscreen because without it the engine won’t run. It’s a rough, tough, go-anywhere truck, powered by BMW’s state-of-the-art, powerful and refined turbocharged diesel and petrol engines, along with ZF’s slick eight-speed automatic gearbox. It’s also a car with an apologetic little bicycle warning hooter button on the steering wheel, produced by a company which owns an eponymous top-flight cycle racing team which on some terrains probably rides faster than a Grenadier can muster. It must have been an enormous leap of faith for those highly experienced engineers and designers who have joined Ineos in the last three years. There was certainly plenty of money behind it (Jim Ratcliffe, a Monaco-domiciled chemicals magnate, is one of the world’s richest men), but failure would have meant career suicide for these women and men. Yet while few have actually met him, there must have been something in Ratcliffe’s vision and determination which inspired them to take the risk. And where James Dyson, the wealthy vacuum cleaner man, took on an equally talented team of engineers and designers to build his battery-electric fantasy car then left them all high and dry, I’ve little doubt that Ratcliffe will get his Grenadier, named after a Belgravia pub, across the finishing line in 12 months. Evidence of progress came this week at the first of a series of UK open days for early customers and media, which presages a world tour. While the company has allowed some journalists to actually drive engineering prototypes of this coil-sprung, solid-axled utility at development partner and 4x4 specialist Magna Steyr’s headquarters in Austria, this is a much-reduced acquaintance with Ineos test and development driver Mark Cullum at the wheel. Reduced further still at the last moment by the withdrawal of the prototype car we were due to be in for a less capable engineering example; still, you take what you can get. After this long build-up (though relatively short development cycle), it was a relief to be sitting at last in the passenger seat as Cullum drove across the wide parkland of the beautiful Apley estate near Telford in Shropshire. There wasn’t much here to tax even a front-driven supermini crossover on decent tyres let alone a permanent four-wheel drive, high-riding utility with no fewer than three locking differentials. In fact, we never even dipped into the low range gearing or locked a differential for improved traction, such is the unflustered nature of the vehicle. You’ll have to excuse me if I don’t do a passenger seat road test here, attributing qualities that I can only guess at, but I can confirm an abiding quality of strength and solidity, good body geometry to enter and exit steep slopes, decent sealing of apertures in the bodyshell and low-down growly power from the 3.0-litre turbo diesel (the last figures we had for this engine were 250bhp and 369lb ft of torque, with the turbo petrol equivalent delivering 283bhp and 332lb ft, although that could change in production). Accommodation in this engineering car seems comfortable, high off the ground, with (unlike the old Land Rover Defender), plenty of width for your shoulders. The vaunted many-button dashboard wasn’t in operation, nor were any of the switches, so we’ll reserve judgement. They’re spinning out the actual terms and exact prices which will be charged for the Grenadier, but we are expecting some kind of announcement within six weeks. Steve Graham, head of aftersales for the company, says his top-five extras will be: tow bars; extra lamps; a winch; a roof rack; and side steps. Like all the sales and marketing staff, he’s anxious that the Grenadier earns its place in people’s hearts and on the buying list of fleet buyers. That quiet modesty runs right through the company, but Graham is pleased with the reception he’s had so far. “We’re now getting enquiries from people outside of those in the know, who’ve said that they also want to be in the know,” he says, “but the issue is legacy and fleet sales will come when the professional buyers see track record and figures for total cost of ownership.” While Grenadier testing is taking place around the world, all the serious 4x4 companies have their special places where they earn their red badges of courage and make a legend for their cars: Land Rover has its daunting proving ground at Eastnor Castle and its incredibly tight off-road course at the factory in Solihull; Mercedes-Benz has the 1,445m high Schöckl mountain behind the Magna Steyr factory in Graz, which builds the mighty G-Wagen off roader; Toyota has the old pilgrim route up Mount Fuji, or the samurai trail to the temple on top of Mount Atago; and there’s the tough rocks of the Rubicon Trail in America for Jeep, which begats the “Trail Rating” for its vehicles. All the above companies have had their ups and downs over the years and good and bad models, but a Jeep, Land Rover, Land Cruiser or G-Wagen badge on the back of a vehicle is the promise of a level of capability and toughness to which Ineos is striving. And while flogging a new thing to the bright young things of Rodeo Drive, the Dubai Mall, Bayswater, the Rue de Rivoli or the Harajuku in Tokyo is all very well, if the Grenadier is going to have staying power (as well as garnering the confidence of utility compnies, fleets and eventually armed forces for green-fleet work), it’s going to have to gain its own identity rather than looking like a very capable thing painstakingly designed by agencies with chassis and drivetrains from Germany, axles from Italy and transmission from America, built at a fire-sale ex-Mercedes factory in France. So, excuse us if we say no more than promising (although it looks great with some mud on it!), but the proof of the pudding is when it’s in a field pulling a trailer full of sheep for a farmer, or a generator for a linesman, or a couple of search and rescue dogs for the police… I think you know what I mean 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Pictures posted to a Grenadier forum on Facebook; part done pick-ups on what looks like a longer wheelbase! (Autocar said there'd be a a 115" and a 125"). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 A frame on top of a frame on top of a frame (chassis). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 3 hours ago, missingsid said: A frame on top of a frame on top of a frame (chassis). As the extra frame appears to be holding the rear lights and the filler neck, I'd guess it is only temporary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 11 hours ago, jeremy996 said: As the extra frame appears to be holding the rear lights and the filler neck, I'd guess it is only temporary? Wouldn't think so as it also has the inner wheel arches on it. Presumably they are off to a flatbed company for completion. If it was temp only it would an expensive amount of metal to throw away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 I think it would be quite cool with a flat-bed! I really like the look of the back of the truck in the photos above - maybe it's just the angle, but they look good, sort of military. It's growing on me! Si 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 I can see it with a quadtech box on the back. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 That looks like the rear axle has moved back a bit for the tray version? Leading edge of wheel is under the C-pillar on the SW, and way behind it on the flat bed. Possibly trying to avoid the issue with 79 series cruiser where the weight all ends up behind the rear axle. Also, alloy wheels? I though they were going with steelies..... not that I liked them that much 😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Maybe these are for a special order, Aus? Can't make out the number plate on the SW. Glanced at the bottom pic and could not work out why a 110 SW pic was added. 17 hours ago, jeremy996 said: As the extra frame appears to be holding the rear lights and the filler neck, I'd guess it is only temporary? Wouldn't think so as it also has the inner wheel arches on it. Presumably they are off to a flatbed company for completion. If it was temp only it would an expensive amount of metal to throw away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 At this strange it could be just there to satisfy the rules for getting the prototypes out on the road. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestv8 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 On 8/6/2021 at 8:27 PM, jeremy996 said: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/ineos-grenadier-new-4x4-rough-tough-go-anywhere-truck-full-contradictions/ (snip) but it also sports a thoroughly modern touchscreen because without it the engine won’t run. (snip) What exactly does he mean by this? Surely this is not correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestv8 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, Bowie69 said: Possibly trying to avoid the issue with 79 series cruiser where the weight all ends up behind the rear axle. Looks like they are DUPLICATING the issue with the 79 Series dual cab, where the rear wheels have been moved, but simply not far back enough. With a decent sized tray at the back of this Grenadier, it's rear wheels are going to end up positioned very similarly to the 79 Series dual cab's tray. Yes, Ineos have moved the rear wheels have moved back, just like Toyota did, albeit not far back enough, in my opinion. (Photo credit to Carsguide review - https://www.carsguide.com.au/adventure/land-cruiser-79-series-gxl-70350 ) The difference with the 79 Series is that the rear suspension is leaf spring, so the rear leaf spring shackles are actually roughly in the middle of the the tray. So that's not so bad, because this means the rear tray is getting some of its support roughly half way down the length of the tray. But since the Grenadier's rear suspension is likely to remain coil for the dual cab, it's support is no where near the middle of where the tray will be, with a similar length tray. So this could mean the chassis is being pivoted on the chassis from a point thats just below the front of the tray by the rear axle. This would be rather unfortunate because it will be a recipe for a bent chassis, when the tray is heavily loaded and the vehicle is subjected to offroad punishment. Edited August 20, 2021 by tempestv8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Just got to the end of my 2B Prototype Tour experience. Write up to follow when I’ve got home - 190 miles to go! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 The Grenadier rear axle is clearly further back than the Toymota's one. Further, the way a cart horse suspension is attached to the chassis is completely different to a modern coil setup - either way, the designers have to concentrate the load from a certain chassis length to the suspension mount(s) and it's been done successfully for many years. The chassis won't bend because of some rear overhang. Finally, don't forget there is a heck of a lot of weight ahead of that axle! People are looking for problems that don't exist. I'm very sure Ineos will bring a well-sorted arrangement to market... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I have got back from my trip down to near Lewes from Melton Mowbray for the Grenadier 2B Prototype Tour Experience - 402 miles door to door in my LR 110CSW 200Tdi. Spent just over 2.5 hours there with a half hour passenger ride in one of the drivetrain prototypes. It's a proper prototype with a mix of one-off plastic bits, gaffer tape, one-off metal parts, lots of dymo-tape labels and part of the initial talk was ignore the interior, that will change, concentrate on the drivetrain, ride, handling, controllability, noise and vibration levels. So, impressions; it's an X5 drivetrain reworked as a proper off roader - air intake up high, optional electric lockers and optimised for low down torque, Ian, (Ian White MBE), the test driver thought the engine didn't need to do much more than 2500rpm. Very controllable and well matched to the auto box. Nothing too dramatic was done across a mix of parkland, woods, sheep fields and some rolling slopes, but I got the impression that my 200Tdi would have been rather rougher riding, a bit breathless in places and I would have had issues with my steering lock! It was very civilised; the seats are really excellent, (reminded me of the Recaros in my old Vauxhall Nova GTE), the noise levels low, (even with the windows open), and low levels of vibration, (remember my base line is a 200Tdi!) Plenty of shoulder room, the cabin seems huge compared to my 110. It is far to early to judge fit and finish, but the outer panels seem well put together and the prototype interior seems well judged. (So many bits are 3D printed, other than shape and location, I'm not sure what else you can take away from this). Apparently there are announcements about sales, service and warranty shortly; they are not going for a conventional dealer network; we will have to wait and see for final details. I took a lot of pictures, some of which are below, (some were just "meh"). They were not keen for people to take pictures of the underside as there are changes already planned, the basic drivetrain is set, but the under-bonnet layout is still being revised, and they would not open any of the bonnets, (probably debating how many covers to put in the way; the answer is DON'T!). The wiring sounds like a bit of a hybrid; the drivetrain prototype has issues with the window switches being miss-mapped, with the wrong window moving when a switch is operated, so I would guess that the interior and basic systems are CANBUS, (with minor programming issues), but the accessory switches are intended to be wired to under-bonnet fuse boxes and terminations; sticking a winch on should be a doddle. The bumpers are in 5 bits, with bits being replaceable separately, with space for a concealed winch. No one could tell me about the provision for a tow hitch and electrics; this was apparently the most expected optional extra, (I'll need it). I think Ineos are being very brave letting the public see a vehicle this early, ("never show fools and children things half done!"), some of the Facebook groups are full of the impatient wanting a price and availability NOW, but they are still a year from commercial release, but come October I expect to be putting down a returnable deposit. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_grieve Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 9 hours ago, jeremy996 said: it's an X5 drivetrain I think that's a little misleading, the engine and gearbox are X5 (B57or B58 coupled to a ZF 8HP70) but the transfer case is bespoke, the propshafts are bespoke and the axles are Carrera. I'm maybe being a little pedantic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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