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Thoughts and Musings on the Ineos Grenadier


Bowie69

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44 minutes ago, Happyoldgit said:

Can you book, do they have a finished product for Joe Public to test drive yet?

I got an email the other day inviting me to come and drive one of the 2B's as part of the '2B Tour'. It looked like there were 3 sites; Scotland, S Wales and Hertfordshire. I'm booked in for the 20th Aug.

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It'll be interesting to see if you're invited to take photos or have as much freedom as with your Defender thread, or if things will be structured so as to prevent you getting any meaningful feel for the vehicle. The lack of transparency that Ineos have had from the outset is something that concerns me.

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On 6/18/2021 at 12:41 PM, Bowie69 said:

Anti-roll bars don't preclude off-road flex, late RRCs and Discos had them, and I don't remember anyone complaining about flex off road, did they?

It does impact the flex quite a bit, especially how quickly the suspension reacts. Not just static posing flex. But as you bump over stuff, one equipped with ARB's is far more likely to lift wheels and scrabble wheels or even loose traction all together. And more prone to becoming cross axled. Having TCS with ARBs makes a huge difference.

It is quite popular to remove ARB's in some off road circles still. And it can yield 10-20% more droop for some applications.

There are some good demo's of how effective the sway bar disconnect is on the new Bronco:

With Land Rover's it is worth noting that ACE, while it doesn't fully disconnect in the same way. Is a reactive anti roll bar system and will allow more flex at slow speeds off road vs high speed on road. ACE is of course included on most modern IFS/IRS off road focused Land Rover models these days (New Def, D5, RR, RRS). Although I think it wears the name of Dynamic suspension or similar.

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15 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said:

It'll be interesting to see if you're invited to take photos or have as much freedom as with your Defender thread, or if things will be structured so as to prevent you getting any meaningful feel for the vehicle. The lack of transparency that Ineos have had from the outset is something that concerns me.

Interesting it will be. :)

I'll report back on my experience and do a review of some kind. But I'm not sure what to expect as of yet, although it feels a long way off. Despite being only a month and a half away. With the Defender it was a full production/retail model from a dealership, so I had lots of freedom. I expect the 2B Tour to be more akin to a Land Rover Experience day.

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Just now, Chicken Drumstick said:

Interesting it will be. :)

I'll report back on my experience and do a review of some kind. But I'm not sure what to expect as of yet, although it feels a long way off. Despite being only a month and a half away. With the Defender it was a full production/retail model from a dealership, so I had lots of freedom. I expect the 2B Tour to be more akin to a Land Rover Experience day.

I'm going on one too. I was sent a direct e-mail and I booked the same day, 20/08/2021 18:00 in darkest Hertfordshire. The wording suggests its more of a "sit in the passenger seat, hang on while we try to impress you", so I intend to turn up in my scruffy 110 and dare them! 

As it is the 2B prototypes, I doubt we will see production interiors, but should get some idea of space, basic capability and interior noise level. I'm childishly excited!

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I wonder what the switched in the 'OFFROAD MODE' group do? (on the upper right)

Personally think the interior is looking pretty fab. Shame about the BMW automatic shifter control. I guess that is just too expensive or difficult to replace as Morgan also use it. But overall it is an interior I'd like to sit in! :D 

Screenshot 2021-07-07 at 12.45.00 am.png

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I was hoping the red button on the steering wheel would be a cyclist repellant device. 😁

Seriously, looks like a pretty nice place to be. I'm a big fan of the buttons, though not sure the roof console is the best place to operate the lockers. And manually adjustable seats, yes please! 🙂

 

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I was daft enough to watch the video on release and was thinking of what it reminded me of; '80s high end hi-fi, military radios and a late '90s sound mix desk. All it needed was a slider somewhere and I would be transported back to 2000, when I owned a music studio!

Is it bad? No, it should be easy to use in gloves or with cold hands; it is not part of the modern car aesthetic, smooth screens and no clutter. From the conversation, it looks easy to add lights, and heavy current accessories without a major rebuild of the interior trim.

Loved the seats; liked the idea of a floor with bungs for washdown, not crazy about the screen, but thought the iDrive controller was a logical solution. Can that bit be a delete option?

Does the interior have a solution for CB/ UHF / Cellular radios? My 110 has two radios mounted; how do I replicate that?

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1 hour ago, elbekko said:

quite like that interior. The dialogue in the video was very much an exercise in how to not explicitly say Defender while meaning Defender.

I quite like it too 🙂    But it was a pretty poor video, the questions were led and clumsy - and we didn’t really learn much other than from the visuals ? 
 

Nothing about the config of the rear seats, nothing about the load area, nothing much about the functions of any of the dash features… 

At first I thought it looked a lot like a puma layout -  but I seemed to quickly forget that.
 

It does look to be modern but also practical, which I guess was the goal.

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11 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said:

Where are the dials/gauges? Surely not on the touchscreen?

There's a gap in the dash in front of the steering wheel wich looks like it is waiting for a binicle to be added?

Like the sat nav comment.

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I remember one occasion when my fingers were so cold I could not turn the key to start the car. I don't see why you would prefer a traditional key with a transponder over a start button. I do like the design ethos behind the manual adjustment of the seats. The lower trim levels of the new Defender have that too. :ph34r:

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New article in the Telegraph, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/inside-ineos-grenadier-practical-fashionable-4x4-workhorse-without/

Inside the Ineos Grenadier: a practical and fashionable 4x4 workhorse without trying too hard

The interior of the rugged off-roader has been revealed, along with details of who the car is being pitched at

ByAndrew English, MOTORING CORRESPONDENT7 July 2021 • 12:01am

“Just the thing for the zombie apocalypse,” says Mark Tennant with a wicked grin as he describes the new Grenadier 4x4 utility slated for deliveries next July with a starting price of about £45,000.

Ineos Automotive’s commercial director attributes the quote to a group of American off-road enthusiasts who have been polled by the company as it developed the Grenadier. They were part of a large group of potential customers for the go-anywhere vehicle aimed at filling a gap in the market vacated by Land Rover’s old Defender, the Mitsubishi Shogun and Toyota Land Cruiser.

Most current 4x4s such as the latest Defender have eschewed the Grenadier’s old-style body-on-frame layout and have car-like monocoque bodyshells rather than a separate chassis with long-travel suspension.

The two-seat commercial version of the Grenadier will cost from about £45,000 including VAT (a commercial version of the all-new Defender is already on sale). Five-seat commercials and two- and five-seat station wagon versions will be available in July. A double-cab pickup is definitely on the way and the company hasn’t ruled out a short-wheelbase version.

Ineos Automotive is a subsidiary of the chemicals giant owned by Jim Ratcliffe although there’s plenty of experience in the team developing the new car, which has had a partial unveiling last week. While the silhouette of this near five-metre-long utility has definite links with the old long-wheelbase Land Rover Defender, Toby Ecuyer’s design is unique in its overall shape and details. 

This is especially so in the interior, which shuns the current trend for touchscreen and voice-recognition technology and derives heavily from aircraft flight decks, plant- and agricultural-equipment facias, as well as the marine control panels which form Ecuyer’s background.

While there is a centre touchscreen which looks very like that from BMW (which also supplies the six-cylinder twin-turbo petrol and diesel engines) the ancillary buttons including those for the heating and ventilation are separate, large and etch-marked with their function. 

These are located in screw-mounted metal-finish switch panels in the centre console and roof; the facia owes more to the Isle of Wight hydrofoil than it does state-of-the-art car manufacturing, but Ecuyer is adamant that this is a long-lasting and durable solution.

“We did look at a fashionable car, but realised that this would make statements that would be fast out of date,” Ecuyer says, “so we quickly dialled that back."

Instead, the no-nonsense mien is tough and easy to use, and it really is a hose-out floor at least, with rubber bungs to drain the water. Most of the potential options such as winches and roof lights are already pre wired, so there’s no requirement to dismantle the interior to fit these extras. Similarly, saddle-leather options for things like the steering wheel cover will stain and adopt the shape of the user's hands over time. Ineos is keen to open-source its wiring and luggage-locking systems to encourage outside suppliers to create specialist equipment for the Grenadier.

In spite of the Grenadier’s rough, tough approach, the interior feels airy and comfortable with lots of room for rear seat passengers – at least in the station wagon version that was on display.

“Always in our minds was the need for a practical vehicle, but not [because it is utilitarian] rubbish inside,” says Ecuyer. “There’s no reason why a utilitarian vehicle can’t keep you warm, dry and comfortable.”

Ecuyer has worked closely with the main design and engineering offices at Magna Steyr in Austria, which is one of Ineos’s engineering partners. This Austrian four-wheel drive specialist is part of the Canadian engineering giant Magna and has worked with Mercedes-Benz on its acclaimed G-wagen, as well BMW and Jaguar, and also runs a number of contract-assembly plants.

On the exterior the Grenadier has a number of other innovations such as the racking systems built into the rear panels, doors and roof to enable extra carrying capacity. These attachment points will also be open-sourced to encourage aftermarket equipment suppliers.

There are built-in attachment points on the side of the roof (where the old Safari window lights were mounted on a Defender) and rubbing-strip panels which means the Grenadier will be able to carry up to 150kg up there without requiring a roof rack. Exterior equipment storage is possible, but the planned lockable boxes were ditched because, as Ecuyer explains, “by the time we’d ensured safety and access, they really weren’t big enough to be useful”.

Despite its utilitarian roots, Ineos thinks Government and emergency services will form just 10 per cent of orders, with the majority (more than 55 per cent) going to lifestyle markets especially in the US where hunting and fishing pastimes often demand specialist off-road vehicles. 

Utilitarian markets such as farming and estate management along with ski and safari adventure firms are predicted to occupy a quarter of sales, while 10 per cent of the output is anticipated to go to off-road driving enthusiasts who will value the Grenadier’s solid coil-sprung beam axles and three differential locks as standard.

The company claims it has 300,000 unique users on its website, with 40,000 “hand raisers” who say they are prepared to buy. Zombie apocalypse excepting, Ineos plans to open reservations this October. Annual production will be around 25,000 to 30,000 when the factory is at full steam, and the main markets will be in Europe and North America with sales and servicing agents currently being recruited around the world.

Named after a Belgravia pub, the Grenadier has been the topic of intense media interest since the start-up company ditched plans for a vaunted Welsh production site (along with a Portuguese plant) and bought the former Mercedes-Smart facility in Hambach in eastern France. In fact, since January this year, Ineos Automotive has been producing Smart cars under licence for Mercedes, while at the same time preparing for Grenadier production on a line formerly intended for a large Mercedes battery-electric SUV.

“It’s given us confidence that we can produce cars to the standard required,” says Tennant. “The Smart cars we’ve produced have had a slightly higher quality standard and the plant safety has also improved.”

The facts

Ineos Grenadier

Price/availability: from £45,000 including VAT/orders open in October for delivery in July 2022
Engines/gearbox: BMW straight-six-cylinder twin turbo 281bhp/332lb ft petrol and 245bhp/406lb ft diesel, eight-speed torque converter automatic gearbox with two-speed transfer case giving a set of low-speed crawler gears, permanent four-wheel drive with three lockable differentials
Construction: ladder frame chassis with separate body, coil-sprung solid beam axles (Panhard rod location at the rear)
Towing capacity: 3.5 tonnes
Length/width/height: 4,927mm (inc spare wheel)/1,930 (exc mirrors)/2,033mm
Wheelbase: 2,922mm
Wheels/tyres: 17- or 18-inch steel or alloy rims with Bridgestone or Goodyear all-terrain tyres

(I've pulled images from the Ineos Grenadier press pack, rather than the Telegraph ones, although most of them are the same. The infographic is Ineos' own).

INEOSGrenadierInteriorInfographic.jpg

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Edited by jeremy996
update the origin of the photographs
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And here is the press release:-

Strict embargo: 00:01 BST, 07 July 2021

 

INEOS reveals Grenadier interior: ready for anything

work and life throws at it

 

·         Innovative design proves that a capable body-on-frame 4X4 can still deliver on modern comfort and refinement

·         As with the exterior design, the focus is on practicality and utility – from switches and dials, to stowage and customisation options

·         Interior is built to endure, with hard-wearing materials and integrated tech that will stand the test of time

·         #GrenadierUnwrapped

 

London, 7 July 2021 – The interior of the INEOS Grenadier is designed on purpose, to deliver the space, practicality and versatility owners need from a hard-working 4X4. Starting from a clean sheet, the design incorporates the modern technology and comfort expected of a vehicle for the 2020s and beyond.

“When we started thinking about the Grenadier’s interior, we looked carefully at modern aircraft, boats and even tractors for inspiration, where switches are sited for optimal function, regular controls are close to hand, auxiliary ones are further away,” said Toby Ecuyer, Head of Design. “You can see the same approach in the Grenadier: the layout is functional and logical, designed with ease of use in mind. It has everything you need and nothing you don’t.”

Toggle switches and dials on the centre and overhead consoles are widely spaced and clearly labelled. Auxiliary switches have been built in, pre-wired to support the addition of winches, work lights and other accessories. 

Advanced technology is included only where it benefits functionality and usability. The infotainment system is accessed via a 12.3-inch touchscreen, or by using a rotary dial. The Apple CarPlay and Android Auto integration means users can rely on smartphone navigation which will always be up to date.  And the off-road pathfinder navigation system allows drivers to programme, follow and record their route via waypoints, when roads and tracks are left behind.

With hard-wearing surface materials throughout, the Grenadier is designed to endure. Drain plugs in the rubber flooring and wipe-down upholstery mean the interior can be hosed out. Water-resistant anti-stain Recaro seats provide ergonomic support and comfort on or off the road. Carpets and leather upholstery will be available for those aiming to leave the mud and sand outside.

Stowage space has been maximised, with a dry storage box under the rear seat, a lockable central console cubby box, and secure side-mounted storage in the rear load area. There is also scope for individualisation, with a wide range of interior options and accessories to help each owner customise the Grenadier to best perform its role. 

Dirk Heilmann, INEOS Automotive’s CEO, said: “Inside and out, the Grenadier has been designed to do a job - to get people and their kit where they want to go in comfort, in control and with no fuss. It just works.”

130 second-phase Grenadier prototypes are currently half-way through their target of 1.8 million kilometres of gruelling testing around the world. Next stage: the dunes of Morocco.

Reservations will open from October 2021 and deliveries will start from July 2022.

-Ends- 

Contact details:

Sarah Pelling, Head of PR, INEOS Automotive

+44 (0) 7887 451773  

sarah.pelling@ineos.com

About INEOS Grenadier

In 2017, INEOS Chairman Jim Ratcliffe, a car enthusiast and experienced adventurer, identified a gap in the market for a stripped back, utilitarian, hard-working 4x4 engineered for modern day compliance and reliability. INEOS Automotive Limited was formed and a senior team of automotive professionals assembled to bring the vision to reality with a fresh perspective of 4x4 development and manufacturing. 

Combining rugged British spirit and design with German engineering rigour, the Grenadier will be a truly uncompromising 4x4 built from the ground up. Engineered to overcome all conditions, it will provide best-in-class off-road capability, durability, and reliability to those who depend on a vehicle as a working tool, wherever they are in the world.

INEOS Automotive is a subsidiary of INEOS Group (www.ineos.com), a leading manufacturer of petrochemicals, speciality chemicals and oil products. It employs 22,000 people across 34 businesses, with a production network spanning 183 manufacturing facilities in 26 countries. From paints to plastics, textiles to technology, medicines to mobile phones, materials manufactured by INEOS enhance almost every aspect of modern life. In 2019, INEOS had sales of circa $61bn and EBITDA of around $6bn.

To find out more about Grenadier, visit www.ineosgrenadier.com

 

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42 minutes ago, missingsid said:

There's a gap in the dash in front of the steering wheel wich looks like it is waiting for a binicle to be added?

I think that’s maybe a slot for a phone or something? Far too small for a meaningful binnacle with dials etc.

After all the crowing about unnecessary computers and screens and then they don’t even give you a proper speedo and gauges?

The dashboard aside, it looks fairly good and does seem to have been designed with some practicality in mind. As above it would have been nice to see some of the rest of the interior, proper details of loadspace etc. but hopefully that will come in time.

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I have to say that's not bad,  a bit scattergun, but not bad. I like that the panels all appear removable with an allen key, and there are clearly lots of options for adding accessories.

Few things of note, to me:

 

  • Only one audio control, volume, which goes back to their ethos of using a connected device rather than stuffing the car with a mediocre ICE system.
  • Switches for outside lights are welcome
  • Assuming glass panels are options....
  • The off road buttons read as 'wading' and 'off road', perhaps the wading button closes holes in the bell housing/timing cover :D
  • Seats do look fab, for me, with good lumbar and side support
  • Central tower looks a little like the Avengers building in New York, bit unsure about it, the vent styling particularly
  • Suspect the device and charging ports may be in the cubby box, but clearly need one up front, as well as a phone mount that that works for 99% of phones -perhaps whats what the divit in the dash pad is?
  • Don't know what the logo is in the middle of the wheel, looks awkward and where is it from? Prefer the black wheel over the brown/ox blood version in the film.

First impressions anyway :) 

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49 minutes ago, western said:

Just had a quick watch, I prefer my 110's dash & layout, don't like the idiot labels at every switch, just looks far to cluttered. 

I quite like the labels. Makes it obvious and quick/easy to know what each button does. Just having a symbol can make it hard to know what a button does sometimes. Modern tractors are awful for this.

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24 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

I quite like the labels. Makes it obvious and quick/easy to know what each button does. Just having a symbol can make it hard to know what a button does sometimes. Modern tractors are awful for this.

Concerned that the labels won't take long to rub off TBH.

Hole in das not big enough for gauges? It only has to pass the loom not hold the gauges they would be above dash unless pure HUD employed?

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Who needs gauges now? I only use the digital speedo display and then occasional look at fuel gauge on my daily. Even with the fuel, I tend to thumb scroll to the range estimation. Having a configurable digital display is much better in my opinion. Everyone can customize it to exactly what they want to see and nothing more. 
 

I personally like the overall look, and the pre wired accessory switches. Hopefully they price them in the same way Ford has done with the new bronco, and don’t follow LR’s example of charging £100 for a dog bowl and £500 for a carp shower attachment 😉😉😉

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